Does the Consumer Rights Act Give You 6 Years to Claim For Faulty Appliances?
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not give you a six-year guarantee. It gives you up to six years to bring a legal claim if an appliance fails prematurely due to an inherent fault. Your rights are strongest in the first 30 days and first six months. After that, the burden falls on you to show the failure was the product’s fault – not wear and tear or misuse. Your claim is always with the retailer, not the manufacturer.
This article provides general guidance on UK consumer rights as they relate to appliances. It is not legal advice. For your specific situation, seek guidance from Citizens Advice, Which?, or a legal professional.
It is widely stated that UK consumers have “up to six years” to claim for a faulty appliance. This is broadly true – but frequently misunderstood, and often misrepresented by retailers. Here is a clear, plain-English explanation of what the law actually says and what it means for you.
What Does the Consumer Rights Act Actually Require?
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, all goods sold by a retailer must be:
Of satisfactory quality – including being durable and lasting a reasonable length of time- Fit for purpose – the appliance must do what it is designed to do
- As described – the product must match what was stated at point of sale
The most important of these for appliance owners is satisfactory quality – specifically the requirement for durability. The law requires that appliances last a reasonable length of time given their price, type, and normal use. It does not guarantee a specific number of years, but it does mean that an appliance failing well before the end of a reasonable lifespan may be subject to a valid claim.
What Is the “Six-Year Rule” – and What It Is Not?
What it IS
The time limit within which you can bring a legal claim through the courts – six years in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland; five years in Scotland.
What it is NOT
A six-year guarantee or warranty. You cannot simply demand a repair or replacement on any fault that occurs within six years. You must demonstrate the product failed prematurely due to an inherent fault.
To succeed in a claim outside the first six months, you must show two things: (1) the product did not last a reasonable length of time, and (2) the failure was due to an inherent fault – not normal wear and tear or misuse. As time passes, this becomes progressively harder to demonstrate.
Your Rights at Each Stage
If an appliance is faulty, not as described, or unfit for purpose within the first 30 days, you have the right to a full refund. This is a firm right provided the fault is genuine and not caused by misuse. The retailer cannot insist on a repair or replacement instead of a refund during this period.
If a fault develops within the first six months, the law presumes it was present at the time of sale – unless the retailer can prove otherwise. During this period, the retailer must offer a repair or replacement. If a satisfactory resolution cannot be achieved, or if a repair would cause significant inconvenience, you may be entitled to a refund or price reduction.
The burden of proof is on the retailer to disprove an inherent fault – not on you to prove one.
After six months, the burden of proof shifts to the consumer. You will likely need to demonstrate that the fault was inherent – for example, through an independent engineer’s report. This is the most challenging stage of enforcing your rights, and the stage where many valid claims are abandoned unnecessarily.
You have up to six years (five in Scotland) to bring a legal claim through the courts. Valid claims are still possible well beyond the guarantee period – particularly for higher-value appliances that fail significantly earlier than would be reasonable. However, the evidence required and the difficulty of proving an inherent fault increases with time.
| Period | Your right |
|---|---|
| 0 to 30 days | Full refund |
| 0 to 6 months | Repair or replacement (fault presumed inherent) |
| 6 months to 6 years | Claim possible – you must demonstrate the fault |
What Is a “Reasonable Lifespan” for an Appliance?
There is no fixed legal definition – but courts apply an objective test based on what a reasonable person would expect given the price, type, and circumstances of use. As a general guide:
| Scenario | Likely view |
|---|---|
| £600 washing machine failing beyond repair at 18 months | Strong grounds for a claim – well below reasonable lifespan |
| £200 budget machine failing after 4-5 years of heavy use | Weaker grounds – price and usage are relevant factors |
| £1,000 fridge freezer failing at 3 years | Reasonable expectation of 10+ years – strong grounds for claim |
| Any appliance failing within the first 6 months | Presumed inherent fault – retailer must resolve it |
Key factors that influence what is “reasonable” include: purchase price, brand positioning, frequency of use, and the nature of the failure. A catastrophic failure rendering an appliance beyond economic repair is viewed very differently to a minor component fault.
Who Is Responsible – the Retailer or the Manufacturer?
Under the Consumer Rights Act, your legal contract is with the retailer – not the manufacturer. The retailer is responsible for resolving faults. Manufacturer warranties are separate and additional to your statutory rights – they do not replace them.
Retailers frequently refer customers to the manufacturer once a warranty has expired. This is often done in the expectation that consumers will not pursue further. It does not remove the retailer’s legal obligations where a valid claim exists.
If a retailer tells you your rights have expired because the manufacturer’s guarantee has ended, this is incorrect. Your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act exist independently of any manufacturer warranty.
What Remedies Can You Claim?
Where a valid claim is established, the retailer is entitled to choose the initial remedy – typically starting with repair or replacement. However, you may be entitled to escalate to a refund or price reduction where:
Repair not possibleIf the appliance cannot be repaired, a replacement or refund must be offered. You cannot be left without a resolution.
Unreasonable delayIf a repair takes an unreasonably long time – particularly for essential appliances such as a fridge or washing machine – you may have grounds to escalate.
Significant inconvenienceIf the repair process causes you significant inconvenience, you may be entitled to request a refund or replacement rather than a further repair attempt.
Price reductionWhere a full refund is not available – particularly for older appliances – a partial refund reflecting the reduced value or remaining useful life may be appropriate.
Wear and Tear vs Inherent Fault – What Is the Difference?
The Consumer Rights Act does not cover normal wear and tear. All appliances deteriorate over time – this is expected and not claimable. The distinction that matters is:
Claimable – inherent fault
The appliance failed due to a defect present at the time of sale, or lacked the durability that a reasonable person would expect – meaning it was not of satisfactory quality.
Not claimable – wear and tear
Normal deterioration over time, damage caused by misuse, or failure of components that have simply reached the end of their expected life after reasonable use.
This distinction is often the central point of dispute. An independent engineer’s report confirming an inherent design or manufacturing fault significantly strengthens a claim.
How to Make a Claim – Step by Step
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Contact the retailer first – not the manufacturer. State clearly that you are making a claim under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and explain the nature of the fault and when it occurred.
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Get the fault diagnosed. In many cases a retailer will require a diagnosis before agreeing to any remedy – this is reasonable. The diagnosis confirms the nature of the fault before anyone can decide on the appropriate course of action.
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Obtain an independent engineer’s report if needed. After six months, you will likely need independent evidence that the fault is inherent rather than caused by wear or misuse. A written report from a qualified engineer significantly strengthens your case.
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Put your claim in writing. Send a formal letter or email to the retailer clearly stating your claim, the evidence, and the remedy you are seeking. Keep copies of all correspondence.
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Escalate if necessary. If the retailer refuses a valid claim, seek help from Citizens Advice, use a dispute resolution service, or pursue a claim through the small claims court. Many valid claims are resolved at this point without going to court.
Why Are So Many Valid Claims Abandoned?
Despite the clarity of the legislation, enforcement in practice is inconsistent. Retailers may rely on expired manufacturer guarantees as grounds to refuse a claim, require evidence the consumer does not know they need, or delay and dispute claims in the expectation that many will not be pursued further.
Simply because they are incorrectly told their rights have expired. Your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act exist independently of any manufacturer warranty. If a retailer says otherwise, this is not accurate.
Understanding your rights – and being prepared to pursue them in writing – is the most effective way to achieve a fair outcome. Most disputes that reach a formal written stage are resolved without going to court.
What About Extended Warranties?
Extended warranties are separate commercial products – they are not an extension of your statutory rights. Many consumers take out extended warranties without realising that the Consumer Rights Act may already provide protection for premature failures, potentially without the need to pay for additional cover.
Before purchasing an extended warranty, read our detailed guide on whether extended warranties are worth buying. Extended warranties can have significant limitations – particularly for older appliances – that are not always clear at point of sale.
Frequently Asked Questions
Does the Consumer Rights Act give me a six-year guarantee on my appliance?
No. The Consumer Rights Act does not provide a six-year guarantee. It gives you up to six years to bring a legal claim if an appliance fails prematurely due to an inherent fault. To succeed in a claim, you must demonstrate that the failure was not due to wear and tear or misuse, and that the appliance did not last a reasonable length of time given its price and type.
The retailer told me my rights have expired because the guarantee has run out – is this correct?
No. This is one of the most common and misleading responses from retailers. Your statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act exist independently of any manufacturer or retailer guarantee. A guarantee period ending does not remove your right to make a claim for a fault that constitutes a breach of the Act. The six-year limitation period for bringing a legal claim is separate from any warranty.
My appliance is 2 years old and has broken down – do I have a claim?
Possibly – it depends on the nature of the fault, the purchase price, and whether the failure represents a reasonable lifespan. After six months, the burden of proof shifts to you to demonstrate an inherent fault. An independent engineer’s report confirming the nature of the fault is valuable evidence. Contact the retailer in writing, citing the Consumer Rights Act, before pursuing further steps.
Should I contact the retailer or the manufacturer?
Always contact the retailer. Under the Consumer Rights Act, your legal contract is with the retailer – not the manufacturer. The retailer is legally responsible for resolving faults under the Act. Manufacturer warranties are separate and additional. A retailer directing you to the manufacturer after a warranty has expired does not remove their statutory obligations.
What evidence do I need to make a claim after six months?
After six months, the burden of proof shifts to you. The most useful evidence is an independent engineer’s report confirming that the fault is inherent – i.e. due to a design or manufacturing defect rather than wear, tear, or misuse. Keep all purchase receipts, correspondence with the retailer, and any engineering reports. Put your claim in writing so there is a clear record.
Can I take the retailer to court if they refuse my claim?
Yes. If a retailer refuses a valid claim, you can pursue it through the small claims court. Many disputes are resolved without actually going to court once a formal letter before action is sent. Citizens Advice can help you understand the process and draft a letter. The cost of using the small claims court is relatively modest and can be recovered if your claim succeeds.
Is an extended warranty worth buying given my statutory rights?
In many cases, no – particularly for higher-value appliances, which are more likely to attract protection under the Consumer Rights Act for premature failures. Extended warranties also carry significant limitations, particularly as appliances age. Read our full guide on whether an extended warranty is worth buying before making a decision.
Need help with a faulty appliance?
Whether you need a repair engineer, spare parts, or guidance on your next steps, Whitegoods Help can point you in the right direction.
Your claim is always with the retailer – not the manufacturer. A warranty expiring does not remove your statutory rights.
266 Comments
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7 replies Hi, Hoping you can help. We have a Zanussi oven which is 5 years, 4 months old. Today a gas engineer did a test on the oven and found that the oven was releasing over 500ppm carbon monoxide. The appliance has now been disconnected and the gas capped. We got the appliance from AO.com, and I’m in touch with them, I’m waiting to hear back from their technical dept about the next steps. The gas engineer advised that the product would still be within the customer rights act timescales, that the fault is definitely the cooker, and that it couldn’t be considered normal wear and tear. So that is what I’m working from. Would you advise that the customer rights act is the right legislation to work within here, and if so, what would be reasonable for me to expect from the retailer, especially given the dangerous situation we have been put into through the sale of an appliance that has developed a dangerous fault within 6 years? Many thanks, Paul
6 replies I should also add that I am unable to find any clear definition, on any consumer website, that specifically mentions whether you lose your right to send something back once you have used it. The only reference I see is the following from Which? "… CDs, DVDs or software if you've broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken." I can't find anywhere that specifically states that you cannot use it within these 14 days, nor anywhere that states that you can. To me, it's common sense that you cannot use a product and then send it back, unless it is faulty. However, I am not a consumer expert, so I can only advise that you try to clarify this with a consumer website like Which? or citizens advice. The distance selling act was set up specifically to protect people who buy things remotely as opposed to buying in a shop, where they would normally be able to examine the goods first. At this point we can gauge how well it is made, see it from all angles and generally assess it effectively. But the fact that we have 14 days is, as I described in my previous reply, open to misinterpretation. When buying remotely we may not be able to see any photo of the product, or any photos provided may not give a true representation of the real colour, size, quality etc. Therefore, the idea is that once delivered, and unpacked, we can see the product properly and assess whether it is what we expected. Strictly speaking, we should be expected to inspect and decide within minutes of having any product delivered. Therefore, you would expect 24 hours to be the amount of time we have to reject something. But I did describe one example of a scenario where 14 days might be necessary, and to be honest I can think of more. To my knowledge, no one who has written about these rights from an authoritative position seems to acknowledge any of this. Maybe they think it's such a no-brainer that it doesn't need explaining? But I would beg to differ, and I'm sure that many people would interpret the 14 days as being 14 days to assess the product once you have started using it. I personally don't believe this is the case because that would give a ridiculous amount of rights to the consumer and cause retailers no end of trouble and expense having to deal with returned products, where there is nothing wrong with them, but they have been used, and so they cannot legally sell them as new.
I should also add that I am unable to find any clear definition, on any consumer website, that specifically mentions whether you lose your right to send something back once you have used it. The only reference I see is the following from Which?
“… CDs, DVDs or software if you’ve broken the seal on the wrapping, perishable items and tailor-made or personalised items. They also include goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that’s been broken.”
I can’t find anywhere that specifically states that you cannot use it within these 14 days, nor anywhere that states that you can. To me, it’s common sense that you cannot use a product and then send it back, unless it is faulty. However, I am not a consumer expert, so I can only advise that you try to clarify this with a consumer website like Which? or citizens advice.
The distance selling act was set up specifically to protect people who buy things remotely as opposed to buying in a shop, where they would normally be able to examine the goods first. At this point we can gauge how well it is made, see it from all angles and generally assess it effectively. But the fact that we have 14 days is, as I described in my previous reply, open to misinterpretation.
When buying remotely we may not be able to see any photo of the product, or any photos provided may not give a true representation of the real colour, size, quality etc. Therefore, the idea is that once delivered, and unpacked, we can see the product properly and assess whether it is what we expected.
Strictly speaking, we should be expected to inspect and decide within minutes of having any product delivered. Therefore, you would expect 24 hours to be the amount of time we have to reject something. But I did describe one example of a scenario where 14 days might be necessary, and to be honest I can think of more.
To my knowledge, no one who has written about these rights from an authoritative position seems to acknowledge any of this. Maybe they think it’s such a no-brainer that it doesn’t need explaining? But I would beg to differ, and I’m sure that many people would interpret the 14 days as being 14 days to assess the product once you have started using it.
I personally don’t believe this is the case because that would give a ridiculous amount of rights to the consumer and cause retailers no end of trouble and expense having to deal with returned products, where there is nothing wrong with them, but they have been used, and so they cannot legally sell them as new.
Likely replying to Andy Trigg (Whitegoodshelp)
Hi Andy,
We purchased a Samsung NV70K3370BS Dual Fan oven from Appliances Direct less than 6 month’s ago.
We noticed quite early on that food was considerably undercooked despite always waiting for the preheat symbol to extinguish, accompanied by a beep to confirm the oven was at temperature.
After a few weeks of undercooked food, we purchased both a digital temperature probe with wired display and a mechanical oven thermometer. Both of these confirmed the preheat symbol was extinguishing at 150c, and often lower, no matter what we set the temperature to.
These devices also confirmed the oven never reached the set temperature and was generally 20-30c lower than set, hence the undercooked food.
We contacted Appliances Direct via email to request a replacement or refund but they insisted we had to let Samsung attempt to repair the oven and if Samsung were unsuccessful, AD would issue a full refund or replacement.
Samsung have now sent the same engineer out 3 times and on his last visit he was at a loss as to what else he could change but both problems were still present after he had left.
I have been back in touch with Appliances Direct who state that Samsung have only been out once (we have the 3 x visit confirmation texts from Samsung to prove otherwise) and Samsung state the oven is fixed, so AD state they are not obliged to refund or replace.
I have been looking for a local appliance engineer to carry out an independent assessment and confirm the issues but none will do it as they don’t want to be drawn into this issue.
Can you please offer any advice on how to proceed from here or do we just have to accept a £500 Samsung oven that doesn’t work because Samsung are saying it does?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
Hello Steve. It’s funny that you should have this problem because we bought a very expensive Miele oven recently and have the exact same problem. Nothing cooks properly when cooked at the recommended temperatures and for the recommended time on the boxes. I had an oven thermometer, one of those little round stainless steel things. And when I checked it, it was recording temperatures of about 20° C lower than the temperature indicated by the oven.
To be honest, I couldn’t be bothered with all the hassle of trying to get it replaced, so decided to just advise the wife to cook things at 20° higher than on the packet. Seem to work perfectly okay. But then I realised that maybe the relatively cheap oven thermometer wasn’t that accurate. So I bought another one, it had a different brand name on it, but it looked almost identical. Anyway, when I retested, it seemed to indicate the correct temperatures. So I rechecked again with the old thermometer, and bizarrely that also now indicated the same temperature that the oven was claiming.
I suppose at the end of the day, the only way to test the correct temperature of an oven is to use expensive testing equipment, which the manufacturers engineers have. There’s also the possibility that maybe the pre-heat trigger is a little premature, and within several minutes or so the oven does reach the correct temperature.
It sounds like your testing equipment was a bit more sophisticated. The retailer is correct to say that they will not replace any appliance until it has been confirmed to be faulty. Usually, if the appliance is under 6 months old they will replace it because the onus is on them to prove that it was not an inherent fault.
At the end of the day, if Samsung engineer has come out (even just the once) and confirmed that there is a fault, but offered no option to fix it, then the retailer has no choice other than to replace it. Don’t bother asking Samsung to replace it, unless they feel in a generous mood they have no obligation to and manufacturers rarely will. It’s only the retailer that is bound by law in this regard. The appliance has to be repaired within a reasonable time, and if you have had 3 engineers out, they have failed on that point. Also, as I just said, within the first 6 months, any fault is deemed by the consumer rights act 2015 to have been present when you bought it. An inherent fault. This is in breach of the consumer rights act. Essentially, they sold you a faulty product and they should replace it.
Hello Julie, I’m assuming that you are talking about the extended warranty and not the original retailer as the appliance is 10 years over the maximum of six years covered by the consumer rights act 2015. I have written a full article here which explains a lot more about how they work, especially regarding when an appliance is no longer repairable – should I buy an extended warranty?. It talks about washing machines but the principles are exactly the same for any appliance or product.
So it is normal for such extended warranties to only pay out a small amount of the purchasing cost of a new appliance. They start to do this after as little as five years. This is one of the things that I warn against. You could take out an extended warranty, and after five or six years they can just tell you it’s too expensive to repair and just give you a contribution towards a new one. Once an appliance is over six years old they commonly will only pay you about 40% of the cost of a new one. So in all honesty, if your appliance is 16 years old, and they are offering you 50% of the cost of a new one that seems pretty good.
My main problems with extended warranties is that they almost never work out cheaper than paying for repairs. If they did, then the company’s selling them would go out of business. They are very big business, and people make a lot of money out of them, but they can only be profitable if they are set up in such a way that most people pay way more in premiums than they ever get back repairs, or even contributions to a replacement.
If you have been paying annually for this cover for around 15 years you presumably have paid a lot out. But £600 is presumably a decent chunk of your payments back. The only thing I can suggest is to double check the terms and conditions on your policy to make sure that they are honouring them. I would be amazed if they had a policy that paid for the full replacement of an appliance after such a long time. Such a policy would be madness for them.
4 replies Thanks for this, really helpful. John Lewis replaced my previous washer in late October 2017 and upgraded it to a 12Kg Samsung model as a comparative model wasn't available at the time. The new machine's RRP was £1200, and we're a 2 person household, I think I may have a case for a repair. We had the motor and pump replaced in 2018, and now there is an error somewhere between the motor and PCB. Does the fact that this was a warranty replacement of a prior washer and not a purchase change anything?
Thanks for this, really helpful. John Lewis replaced my previous washer in late October 2017 and upgraded it to a 12Kg Samsung model as a comparative model wasn’t available at the time.
The new machine’s RRP was £1200, and we’re a 2 person household, I think I may have a case for a repair.
We had the motor and pump replaced in 2018, and now there is an error somewhere between the motor and PCB.
Does the fact that this was a warranty replacement of a prior washer and not a purchase change anything?
Hello Henry. If an appliance is replaced for any reason, the guarantee, and presumably any consumer rights do not get increased as far as I’m aware. In other words, if you bought a washing machine with a 12 month guarantee, and by any chance they replaced it with a brand-new one after 10 months, you would not get a fresh 12 month guarantee, you would still have two months guarantee left. This is something that as far as I’m aware has always been done, and presumably to prevent perpetual guarantees. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it could be challenged, though I don’t know anyone who has.
Likewise, if the consumer rights act 2015 gives us up to 6 years to claim compensation for any breaches, I expect that this six year period starts from the date of purchase, and is not extended if an appliance is replaced. Replacing an appliance is essentially just a much more comprehensive form of repair. And we would not normally expect any extension of guarantees after repairs.
Having said all that, this is just my personal understanding and experience. I am not a consumer expert per se. So you may want to seek clarification from somewhere like citizens advice, or Which?
From what I can tell, I think the 6 year clock starts the day you take ownership of the machine. So when John Lewis provided me with a different machine as a replacement, the 6 year clock started anew when I took ownership.
I have since spoken with John Lewis and they agree I have a claim, so long as I can provide evidence of the fault.
Likely replying to Henry
HI Henry,
I purchased a fridge freezer for £1000 in Feb 2020. It stopped working in April 2023. I purchased it with a 3 year warranty. I got an independent engineer who has deemed that the fridge is beyond repair due to internal wiring issues.
I have spoke with both Blomberg and the retailer who are both stating that they cant or wont do anything further. Blomberg stated that it only had a 1 year warranty, whilst the retailer could not confirm the warranty period.
Would we have anywhere to go with this in terms of small claims etc.
Its looking like I will have to but a replacement and hopefully recover some of these costs
Hi Paul. If you pay £1000 for a fridge and it only lasts 3 years that’s nowhere near a reasonable amount of time. A product must last a reasonable amount of time or it breaches the consumer rights act.
The retailer must know this. You may need to enlist the help of Citizens Advice or Resolver or Which?
I believe a £1000 fridge should last at least 10 years, so you may be entitled to the equivalent of 7 years compensation which would be around £700.
Most retailers would go bust if they paid out all valid claims, so they don’t.
4 replies Hi, I have a 5-6 year old Hotpoint washing machine, used by a family of 2 - twice every three weeks. It has worked well until recently when the door lock burnt-out and rendered the machine unusable. The door lock mechanism (including the wiring) is singed and clearly fire damaged. Luckily, the machine stopped the cycle itself and the fire did not progress into something more serious. This is a known fault with their washing machines and not long ago a number of models were recalled due to electrical faults within door locks posing a fire hazard. My model is not listed among those recalled. I have since contacted Hotpoint and they are sending out an engineer and should repairs be carried out I must pay £75 towards them. Shouldn't I be provided with a free replacement or repair in this case?
Hi, I have a 5-6 year old Hotpoint washing machine, used by a family of 2 – twice every three weeks. It has worked well until recently when the door lock burnt-out and rendered the machine unusable. The door lock mechanism (including the wiring) is singed and clearly fire damaged. Luckily, the machine stopped the cycle itself and the fire did not progress into something more serious. This is a known fault with their washing machines and not long ago a number of models were recalled due to electrical faults within door locks posing a fire hazard. My model is not listed among those recalled.
I have since contacted Hotpoint and they are sending out an engineer and should repairs be carried out I must pay £75 towards them. Shouldn’t I be provided with a free replacement or repair in this case?
Wow. What unbelievable cheek by them. They’ve made an appliance that has a substandard and dangerous design, and they want to charge you to fix it. This is the problem with the consumer rights act 2015, it only gives responsibility to the poor saps that sold it to you, and its not their fault at all.
If the manufacturer refuses to fix it for free the only option is to claim against the retailer.
You are right in saying this is a known fault. Hotpoint had to issue a safety notice a few years back for this very issue because it was a potential fire hazzard.
The only possible way that the door lock and connecting wires can get so hot that they start to melt is because of a poor contact inside the door lock or the parts used are just not up to the job.
I genuinely despair at this because I used to see hundreds of burned out door lock wires on previous Hotpoint washing machines as far back as 30 years ago. How can they still allow this to happen?
Thank you for your advice. Following the engineer’s visit, they decided to recall and replace with a new machine. They have delivered and installed today – I wanted to wait to see this through before updating you as there have been horror stories in this regard too! Here’s hoping it’s better this time round.
Thanks again, Yasmine.
4 replies 27/11/2020 I replaced my relatively cheap Hotpoint dishwasher with an Expensive Miele dishwasher because they boast reliability and 20 year life, it lasted 8 months (July 2021) when an electrical unit burnt out, "Technician's comments: Find power board arcing/large blue flash when power on" Miele took 10 days to get the part to repair it, it lasted a further 8 months (May 2022) and the same part had to be replaced. The machine has lasted a further 8 months (January 2023) and appears to have the same fault, I am waiting for the engineer to come again, can I demand a new machine as I'm thinking it must have a more serious problem for the same new electrical part to fail after only 8 months use, Now I feel this may continue until it catches fire.
27/11/2020 I replaced my relatively cheap Hotpoint dishwasher with an Expensive Miele dishwasher because they boast reliability and 20 year life, it lasted 8 months (July 2021) when an electrical unit burnt out, “Technician’s comments: Find power board arcing/large blue flash when power on” Miele took 10 days to get the part to repair it, it lasted a further 8 months (May 2022) and the same part had to be replaced. The machine has lasted a further 8 months (January 2023) and appears to have the same fault, I am waiting for the engineer to come again, can I demand a new machine as I’m thinking it must have a more serious problem for the same new electrical part to fail after only 8 months use, Now I feel this may continue until it catches fire.
I would also add that although there is nothing to stop you asking Miele for replacement machine, it is very rare for a manufacturer to replace an appliance. They have no obligation whatsoever under consumer law other than to honour the guarantee that they give. Your claim for a replacement or refund under the consumer rights act 2015 is only with the retailer. Sadly, the retailers do not like this, and are usually very unhelpful. But if you have a valid case, and it sounds like you may well have, then you have to be persistent. That’s why I suggested contacting citizens advice as they will give you the confidence to be persistent if they confirm that you do have a valid case.
4 replies Just over 3 years ago I bought a Sony television for about £300 from Amazon, along with a one-year warranty. I could have bought a similar Sony television from John Lewis, with a 5-year warranty, but I chose Amazon because of the free delivery. Last week the television developed a multi-coloured stripe along the bottom 1/5 of the screen. I contacted Amazon and they referred me to Sony, who told me that they are aware of this problem which they described as a spontaneous failure. They have knowledge that it happened but shouldn't happen and referred me to their repair agents. I contacted this company and after I fully described the symptoms they told me they were sure that it was a catastrophic failure of the LCD screen. I then contacted Amazon asking for their comments and I received what appeared to be a very standard reply saying there was nothing they could do. I politely wrote back giving them further details. Again they said it was out of their hands. I had given them full details, quoting where applicable about expecting an expensive item to last more than five or six years. I fully intend going to a small claims court if polite negotiations fail, but I am effectively dealing with an anonymous customer service representative outside UK Shores. I am finding it very difficult to actually contact somebody who has any understanding of UK laws. I would be grateful for any guidance. The item cost £300, I've had it for 3 years, which I think is perhaps very reasonably yet a quarter of its lifespan. I am therefore going to ask for either £225 credit against another television from Amazon or a full replacement at their choice. I would welcome any guidance that you can offer. Ironically 3 years ago Amazon managed to send me a £1,500 unsolicited video camera which I honorably returned. I pointed this out in one of my earlier emails as evidence of my integrity.
Just over 3 years ago I bought a Sony television for about £300 from Amazon, along with a one-year warranty. I could have bought a similar Sony television from John Lewis, with a 5-year warranty, but I chose Amazon because of the free delivery.
Last week the television developed a multi-coloured stripe along the bottom 1/5 of the screen. I contacted Amazon and they referred me to Sony, who told me that they are aware of this problem which they described as a spontaneous failure. They have knowledge that it happened but shouldn’t happen and referred me to their repair agents. I contacted this company and after I fully described the symptoms they told me they were sure that it was a catastrophic failure of the LCD screen.
I then contacted Amazon asking for their comments and I received what appeared to be a very standard reply saying there was nothing they could do. I politely wrote back giving them further details. Again they said it was out of their hands. I had given them full details, quoting where applicable about expecting an expensive item to last more than five or six years. I fully intend going to a small claims court if polite negotiations fail, but I am effectively dealing with an anonymous customer service representative outside UK Shores.
I am finding it very difficult to actually contact somebody who has any understanding of UK laws. I would be grateful for any guidance. The item cost £300, I’ve had it for 3 years, which I think is perhaps very reasonably yet a quarter of its lifespan. I am therefore going to ask for either £225 credit against another television from Amazon or a full replacement at their choice. I would welcome any guidance that you can offer. Ironically 3 years ago Amazon managed to send me a £1,500 unsolicited video camera which I honorably returned. I pointed this out in one of my earlier emails as evidence of my integrity.
Likely replying to Martin H Watson
Hello Martin. I don’t deal with TVs but the Consumer Rights Act is the same for any appliance. When a retailer says it’s out of their hands they are either lying or they have been mis-trained or deliberately kept in the dark about the true extent of consumer rights. It is only the retailer who is responsible under the Consumer Rights Act and the old Sale of Goods Act.
To be honest I wouldn’t say £300 for a TV is, “expensive” but yes it should last longer than 3 years. How long one should last is less clear though. How long something should last is something that has changed as prices have fallen. It took me a great deal of time before I stopped thinking a washing machine should last 10 to 20 years. That’s how long they used to last when I first became an engineer, and for the following 20 odd years. These day’s I’ve come to reluctantly accept that 7 is the average. They have plummeted in cost so much that it’s a whole new set of rules.
TVs are similar in that they are very cheap compared to what they cost in the 70s and 80s when we similarly expected them to last 10 to 20 years. In real terms £300 is very cheap, but at the same time it’s still a lot of money. I would personally still expect a £300 TV to last at least 7 to 10 years though. It also seems like it could be a potential inherent fault, or design flaw. Or a poor component.
My article here shows examples of products that were out of guarantee and customers won replacements or free repairs Out of guarantee even by a long time doesn’t always mean you should pay
I would tell Amazon they are wrong and misleading washing their hands of it. They have the only responsibility and it’s nothing to do with the manufacturer. If the manufacturer makes concessions that’s great. It’s great for the customer and the retailer. But as my article here explains, if the manufacturer won’t do anything the retailer must step in if there is a valid claim Is the sale of goods act too hard on retailers?
How much you can claim is difficult to advise on because it depends on how long it should reasonably be expected to last and that’s quite subjective.
Likely replying to Andy Trigg (Whitegoodshelp)
Hi Andy
In 2016, I bought a cooker for over £1,000 which was sold to me as “Graded As New’. The retailers advertising material states that “Graded items are NOT factory seconds or inferior goods in anyway. They are simply items which have been returned either unopened or under retail outlets 28 days no quibble returns policy”. Their website displays a big sign saying – “Why buy from the High Street, when you can buy the SAME product for 40% less ?”.
I purchased an induction cooker from them for over £1,000; it had very minor problems from the outset – controls sometimes wouldn’t work; over time, it began to become even more unreliable and after a year, I believed that I had no ‘comeback’ as the retailer only offered a 6 month warranty.
After 27 months, the cooker failed entirely; when an electrician pulled it out, we could see a big sticker saying ‘SALVAGE’ on the back. [I should mention, we arranged for the cooker to be installed on arrival, whilst we were out of the house (working), so we hadn’t been able to see the sticker previously]
I contacted the manufacturers of the cooker, who told me, that they put salvage stickers on cookers they deem to be ‘damaged’ or faulty’ and that they remove all serial numbers to absolve themselves of ANY responsibility should the cooker fail.
So, I bought a cooker with a ‘salvage’ sticker on the back and the retailer stands by the view that it was sold as an ‘as new’ item. They say that I’d no rights after their 6 month warranty. My contention, is that a ‘salvage’ item clearly IS a factory second or inferior good’. Because of the salvage sticker, as soon as the cooker arrived in our house, I had NO rights under the Consumer Protection Act in fact, no statutory rights of any kind..
Here’s a query; since that cooker has no protection under the 1987 Consumer Protection Act, if it had caused harm or damage, would I have been able to claim on household insurance for any damage caused by a ‘salvage’ cooker ?
I’m in the process of taking the retailer to court ultimately the case is the retailer saying that I had only a 6 month warranty versus me saying the cooker should last longer than 27 months and that a salvage’ item cannot be defined As New’.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Likely replying to Andy
Hello Andy. When you buy a product, the guarantee that you get with it is always, “in addition to your statutory rights”. Our statutory rights cannot be taken away from us, and are not affected by the manufacturer or retailer at all.
There is no law that says that any product has to have any guarantee whatsoever. Of course no manufacturer would be daft enough to not give at least a 12 month guarantee because everyone does. The guarantees are given by manufacturers as part of the benefits of buying their product. Most guarantees are for 12 months, some guarantees are for longer. Guarantees quite commonly have conditions attached to them such as you must register the product, it cannot be transferred, etc.
From what you describe it seems like the product may have been returned because it was faulty and then recycled through their discounting system. As you say, if a customer returned it because it was faulty then it clearly was not brand-new when they sold it to you.
The consumer law that protects us will still force a retailer to deal correctly with faults regardless of how long the guarantee period is. Appliances failing after guarantee periods have expired commonly still win cases. My article here highlights just a few example, Fridge freezer 4 months out of guarantee | Out of guarantee even by a long time doesn’t always mean you should pay
The main thing to remember is that your claim is against the retailer. The amount of guarantee that they gave you is irrelevant. The fact that they only gave you six months, and you subsequently found it was not just cosmetically damaged but returned as faulty and “salvaged” may be points in your favour. You paid £1000, which was presumably substantially discounted. That makes your appliance very expensive. With very expensive comes reasonable expectations that it is of particular high quality and it will last a reasonable time.
Please let us know how you get on.
Likely replying to Andy Trigg (Whitegoodshelp)
Hi Andy,
We paid £1,000 for the cooker, plus £55 for delivery; we had to spend another £146 on shelves, grill pan and roasting tin – items which would have been included, had we purchased the same cooker from Currys. (we have retained receipts for these extra purchases).
In other words, we spent almost exactly £1,200 on a cooker which we could have purchased elsewhere for between £1,400 – £1,500.
Regarding statutory rights, the manufacturer of the cooker specifically told me that :
“We take precautions as a business to ensure sale of salvage/raw product will not appear again within our supply chain, which is why we sell these products without warranty to our third party jobbers. These precautions include: Capturing the serial number before this is removed from the data badge, Affixing a tamper proof label with the word SALVAGE over the data badge, Affixing a largely worded SALVAGE label on the back panel of the appliance. This also facilitates the filter mechanism for our Customer Care Department for referral back to point of sale (due to the absence of warranty for these appliances), in line with agreements made with Trading Standards.
In view of the ‘absence of {Manufacturer’s} warranty’, are my legal rights compromised in any way ? If so, would this be an unfair condition ?
Do I have rights under the Consumer Protection Act, if the absence of Manufacturer’s warranty ?
I’ve just been through the mediation process and the mediator told me that the retailer states that they buy the cookers ‘from a third party’ and that any faults are repaired so that the cooker can be sold ‘as new’. But surely, if it is repaired to become ‘as new, it is actually a ‘refurbished’ cooker – and therefore cannot be ‘as new’ ?
The onus is on the retailer/point of sale to confirm with the customer, the premise and conditions on which the appliance is being sold – and my view, is that they failed to do so.
I presume, that my best line of argument is that the short life of the cooker, was not reflected in the price paid and therefore, did not meet my reasonable expectations ?
Andy . . . “Thank you!”
3 replies Hi, I have a dishwasher bought in april 2022 and after few weeks I found out few rusty stains inside and on the doors of the dishwasher (corner bit). I send an email to the seller/ producer and they saying that this is not in warranty. My plates, cups etc. sometimes come out with rusty stains. What shall I do?
Hi, I have a dishwasher bought in april 2022 and after few weeks I found out few rusty stains inside and on the doors of the dishwasher (corner bit). I send an email to the seller/ producer and they saying that this is not in warranty. My plates, cups etc. sometimes come out with rusty stains. What shall I do?
Hello Anna. I’m not sure why they said it’s not in warranty. Do you mean they said it’s not covered by the warranty? Obviously, if it was purchased in April 2022 then it is under at least a 12-month warranty until March 2023.
In either case, they are wrong, unless they can show that the rust has been caused by you somehow. Unfortunately, the consumer rights act 2015 puts the onus on the customers after 6 months to prove that a fault is a manufacturing fault. However, in the vast majority of cases this is completely unnecessary as the manufacturer will accept all normal faults and simply fix them under the warranty.
If there are problems with rust, and this is something that cannot just be “repaired” it might explain why the manufacturer is stalling. However, what you need to do is complain to the retailer that you bought it from and tell them that it has got a manufacturing defect causing it to rust. This of course is all on the assumption that no damage has been done to the dishwasher, nothing has dented it etc. Under the consumer rights act 2015 the retailer is responsible if there is a fault that either cannot be fixed, or is not being fixed in a reasonable time, or has an inherent fault.
If they still refuse to do anything, you need a clear and understandable reason as to exactly why, and presumably this can only be that they are blaming installation or the way it’s being used. Anything else should be covered.
3 replies It all boils (excuse the pun) down to if a product has lasted a "reasonable" time for the money, and the type and amount of use it's had. If a product breaks down after 3 years, it's not necessarily a Sale of Goods Act issue, which allows for the fact that products can break down. A minor fault on a product or appliance which works hard isn't necessarily an issue. What is an issue is if the product was expensive, and commonly expected to last a long time, but after a relatively short time it breaks down needing either a very expensive repair, or worse still - replacing. That's when we have to challenge the retailer under the Sale of Goods Act. The other case which justifies action is if there is an inherent fault, which means the product was faulty when sold (due to a design flaw or poorly manufactured part), which manifests itself sometimes years later. Recent amendments to the Sale of Goods Act mean any product failing in the first 6 months is automatically assumed to have an inherent fault unless the retailer can prove otherwise. After 6 months, we have to prove it has an inherent fault, which is often difficult. A repairman's exclamation that it's very bad, or rare can contribute to that evidence.
It all boils (excuse the pun) down to if a product has lasted a “reasonable” time for the money, and the type and amount of use it’s had. If a product breaks down after 3 years, it’s not necessarily a Sale of Goods Act issue, which allows for the fact that products can break down. A minor fault on a product or appliance which works hard isn’t necessarily an issue. What is an issue is if the product was expensive, and commonly expected to last a long time, but after a relatively short time it breaks down needing either a very expensive repair, or worse still – replacing. That’s when we have to challenge the retailer under the Sale of Goods Act.
The other case which justifies action is if there is an inherent fault, which means the product was faulty when sold (due to a design flaw or poorly manufactured part), which manifests itself sometimes years later. Recent amendments to the Sale of Goods Act mean any product failing in the first 6 months is automatically assumed to have an inherent fault unless the retailer can prove otherwise. After 6 months, we have to prove it has an inherent fault, which is often difficult. A repairman’s exclamation that it’s very bad, or rare can contribute to that evidence.
Likely replying to Andy Trigg
Andy, thanks for your comments.
I think I will ask Bosch to repair it with the caveat that if the cost exceeds a ‘reasonable’ amount I will seek redress through the court.
It’s not so much the strict interpretation of the SOGA that bothers me here – it’s the retailer’s attitude that they don’t think that it should apply to them at all!
Once again, thanks for your input.
Cheers
S.
Likely replying to Andy Trigg
Hi Andy,
I wrote the letter to Currys following the disappointment in store and then called head office on Tuesday 28th Jan to confirm the address that I should send the letter. Instead of giving me the address I was asked to detail the problem and was then issued a customer complaint number. The customer services rep told me that my problem could have been dealt with in store and that she would deal with the store on my behalf and call me back by close of business. I never received a call back so called back the following day. Although I had had no call back, the notes against my complaint had been updated and I was told that I would get a call back by the close of business.
This continued until Friday. When I called head office on Friday evening, the customer services rep read all the updated notes and said he couldn’t understand why the case was still open as approval to exchange the washing machine had been granted the day before. He advised that someone from the local Currys store would call me the following day to arrange the exchange. I was called by store the next day and was advised by the store rep that they would need to call Samsung to authorise the exchange. When he called back he advised that an exchange would not be possible as Samsung were only prepared to offer a repair! I advised the store rep to read through the complaint notes and speak to head office. I received a call later that evening advising that the exchange was approved and that I could request the same machine or go into store to choose another model.
I went into store on the Sunday and selected a different model (Hotpoint WMUD963P). It was finally delivered on Friday 7th Feb. I’m really glad that I pursued this. Initially I did not know my rights and was almost accepted the repair as I didn’t realise that there were other options to explore. Thanks for all your help.
Likely replying to Anonymous
Hi Anonymous, I’m assuming you are Rebekah. Thanks for the update. You are rare in pursuing it until you get the exchange.
Your case shows how many of the large retailers operate. They often refuse to help when it’s past 28 days and constantly refer to the manufacturer when the manufacturer has nothing to do with it. If Currys sold you a product with an inherent fault they broke their contract with you to supply a washing machine in perfect condition free from inherent faults. The sale of goods act explicitly says that any fault within the first 6 months is an inherent fault unless they can prove otherwise.
Manufacturers do often step in and offer to exchange appliances but only out of “good will” which is often thin on the ground. If a manufacturer refuses to exchange an appliance it should be totally irrelevant to the retailer. Of course the manufacturer may well not want to exchange an entire appliance which will cost it money, it has no legal obligation to do so. Only the retailer is bound by the Sale of Goods Act. If this costs them too much they should stop selling brands which break down too often.
However, they don’t need to because in most cases their tactics work. Very few people will stay the course and insist on their rights. Very few people will battle on through all the obstacles, stress, inconvenience, misinformation and hassle. Ironically the same people who put all these obstacles in our way will suffer exactly the same fate when their new products also fail.
One complication is that the sale of goods act also states that retailers can insist on a repair if they can show replacing it is disproportionately expensive, which in my opinion causes most of the problems. Surely they could argue it’s virtually always more expensive to replace. The sale of goods act falls down badly because it appears to give equal and opposing rights to retailers and consumers with this statement. If the retailer can persuade the customer to have the fault repaired it will cost them nothing, not one penny because the manufacturer does it under their guarantee. Therefore exchanging will always be disproportionately more expensive to them. At the end of the day though, I can’t see any reason why the sale of goods act would be specifically amended (relatively recently) to state that any fault within the first 6 months is a breach of the contract because it was clearly sold with an inherent fault unless they meant to allow consumers extra power and extra rights to reject it in such an event.
3 replies Don't know what they are trying to claim but everyone in the EU are covered by EU laws. The main protection we have is under the Sale of Goods Act, but this puts the onus on the retailer that sold it and not the manufacturer - maybe that's what they were trying to say? Unfortunately you are experiencing extremely common levels of service as described and explained in my article Why are there so many appliance repair horror stories?. The article may not help except for hopefully explaining why things are so bad. Engineers mostly have no time to fix appliances properly because there's not enough money put aside for aftersales with most makes. If anyone suffers an intermittent fault on a white goods appliance these days they are highly likely to have exactly your experience, dragged on over several weeks. What can you do about it? The repairers are obliged to repair the appliance within a reasonable time under the sale of goods act but if a fault is intermittent, and shows no symptoms when an engineer arrives the only thing they can do is make an educated guess. Replacing the pump was an educated guess because if the pump cut out intermittently it might create those symptoms. If the guess proves to be wrong another appointment has to be made and another guess made, which if wrong again causes the whole cycle to repeat. The only thing you can hope to get is to get preferential treatment for bookings but they have you as a captive customer - you can't go anywhere else, which usually makes matters much worse. The only thing you can try is to threaten to take them to the small claims court for compensation for inconvenience if they don't fix it quickly after 3 visits. Whether you would win or not though is unknown.
Don’t know what they are trying to claim but everyone in the EU are covered by EU laws. The main protection we have is under the Sale of Goods Act, but this puts the onus on the retailer that sold it and not the manufacturer – maybe that’s what they were trying to say?
Unfortunately you are experiencing extremely common levels of service as described and explained in my article Why are there so many appliance repair horror stories?. The article may not help except for hopefully explaining why things are so bad. Engineers mostly have no time to fix appliances properly because there’s not enough money put aside for aftersales with most makes. If anyone suffers an intermittent fault on a white goods appliance these days they are highly likely to have exactly your experience, dragged on over several weeks.
What can you do about it? The repairers are obliged to repair the appliance within a reasonable time under the sale of goods act but if a fault is intermittent, and shows no symptoms when an engineer arrives the only thing they can do is make an educated guess. Replacing the pump was an educated guess because if the pump cut out intermittently it might create those symptoms. If the guess proves to be wrong another appointment has to be made and another guess made, which if wrong again causes the whole cycle to repeat. The only thing you can hope to get is to get preferential treatment for bookings but they have you as a captive customer – you can’t go anywhere else, which usually makes matters much worse. The only thing you can try is to threaten to take them to the small claims court for compensation for inconvenience if they don’t fix it quickly after 3 visits. Whether you would win or not though is unknown.
Thanks for your reply, it has now been a month since the problems started, with 1 visit a week from indesit/hotpoint engineers, the problem still hasn’t been solved, they have in the 4 visits replaced the pump, the motor, the door lock, the circuit board and now waiting until Thursday 16th for a wiring harness as it’s still happening, yet again they have got to wait from today until the 15th august to have the parts delivered although they say they are in stock. The complaints department if D&G are involved, when I phoned D&G today they said but we are paying for the expenses, LOL I said but you aren’t paying for the 5 days one of us has had to have off work or the visits to the launderette in the first two weeks when it wasn’t working at all or the 10 phone calls I’ve had to make to report the faults!! The complaints dept. have been phoning me each time they have been to do the repair, I’m now waiting to hear from D&G as they think the machine might need replacing, but if this happens I have to pay for delivery and fitting of the new machine, so still out of pocket. Let’s wait and see what D&G decide.
Likely replying to Washerhelp
Hi Washerhelp, I bought a Samsung Ecobubble (WF80F5E2W) for £439.99 on the 1st December 2013 from Currys. It broke down on Sunday 19th January after 7 weeks. I had left it running whilst I went to do the shopping and when I returned, there was a burning smell coming from the washing machine. On the Monday I went to Currys to see what the could do and they said because the washer had broken down after the first month I had to deal directly with Samsung.
I spoke to Samsung and they arranged for an engineer to come out and provide a report. The engineer finally came out on the Friday and found that the motor was jamming and required replacing. I told the engineer that I would not want the part replacing and this was put on the report. Samsung called me back later that evening and stated that they could only offer a repair, I again refused to accept and they basically said that there was nothing more that they can do and I would have to deal directly with the retailer. I went back to Currys as soon as I put down the phone and spoke to customer service.
They called head office who basically said that the final decision was with the store, but from the head office point of view they would normally take the lead from the manufacturer. After the phone call, the customer services assistant called his manager and the manager stated that by following store policy he would not be able to provide a replacement and that I would need to speak to Samsung for the repair. Failing that I would need to write a letter to Currys head office and take it up with them. I am in the process of writing a letter, but was just wondering if you could offer any advice. Is it worth pursuing this, or should I just accept the repair? I’m reluctant to accept the repair as I feel that the machine should have lasted for more than 7 weeks.
Likely replying to Rebekah
Hello Rebekah. Your case highlights how difficult it is, not only to deal with these issues – but to even be 100% certain of our rights and exactly who to pursue. Currys clearly operate a good will policy of exchanging products that go faulty within the first month (as do some other large retailers). This is something they don’t have to do and it must cost them a lot of money replacing products for what are often minor faults which they would be within their rights to repair.
Presumably this makes them very reluctant to exchange things after the one month but they still have to operate by consumer law.
A motor failing after 7 weeks is fairly major, it’s a major part. Under the Sale of goods act if an appliance breaks down within the first 6 months it is now assumed that it had an inherent fault unless the retailer can prove otherwise (after 6 months it’s up to the customer to prove it). This means that in UK consumer law, they sold you a faulty appliance which is a breach of the sale of goods act and are entitled to entitled to compensation or even a refund.
The difficulty is that if a retailer can show it is “disproportionately expensive to exchange rather than repair” they can insist on a repair but at the same time consumers are supposed to have a right to reject a product with an inherent fault. There are a few conflicting things within the SOGA.
Currys are right to insist an engineer looks at a faulty appliance before agreeing to exchange it as for all they know it could be faulty because of a user fault (more common than you might imagine on washing machines especially) and Samsung are right in saying all they can offer is to repair it. Under the SOGA the manufacturer only has to honour the guarantee. If it has an inherent or even bad design fault – despite the fact that they made it only the retailer is responsible because you bought it from the retailer and your contract is with them – plus they have your money.
Where Currys are on less firm ground though is in saying that because it failed outside the first month you have no rights, because under the SOGA it is accepted by default (unless they can prove otherwise) that when they sold it to you it had an inherent fault because it failed within 6 months.
Here’s a quote from my article above which is advice given to retailers on how to comply with the sale of goods act –
If faulty goods are involved and the purchase was made a reasonably short time ago, you should offer a refund. Although they won’t usually do so, the customer may claim compensation from you, either immediately following the sale or up to six years afterwards.
Sadly, the phrase, “a reasonably short time ago” is open to different interpretations and even abuse. I would have though 7 weeks is a reasonably short time ago but Currys may well interpret it as 1 month is a reasonably short time only.
If you want a refund, or replacement you need to tell Currys that under the sale of goods act you were sold a faulty appliance, because it has broken down with a serious fault under 6 months the SOGA accepts it had an inherent fault when sold and you are entitled to compensation.
Please let us know what happens either way.
3 replies Hi washer-help, the engineer has fixed my fridge/freezer, it was a faulty freezer fan. He asked me how old the appliance was , i told him 3yrs, 3 months. He fitted a new fan free of charge, just had to pay for the call out charge £89.00. He was ere for only an hour, nice guy , and lives on same road as me about 500yds away. I'm wondering to pursue the call out charge with the retailer, what do you think?
Hi washer-help, the engineer has fixed my fridge/freezer, it was a faulty freezer fan. He asked me how old the appliance was , i told him 3yrs, 3 months.
He fitted a new fan free of charge, just had to pay for the call out charge £89.00.
He was ere for only an hour, nice guy , and lives on same road as me about 500yds away.
I’m wondering to pursue the call out charge with the retailer, what do you think?
Likely replying to Alan
Hello Alan: It’s not a clear cut case so you would need to be pretty sure you wanted to fight it. The Sale of Goods Act does not say a product should not break down. It accepts that products do break down. It only says it should be free from inherent faults, be fit for purpose, and to last a reasonable time. Lasting a reasonable time doesn’t specifically mean lasting without breakdowns, it means lasting as in the life of the product.
If the fault you have had is a design flaw you may be able to claim it was sold with an inherent fault, but you would need evidence to prove this.
If it cost a lot of money to repair you may have been able to claim it should not have suffered an expensive breakdown after only 3 years when it cost so much money (it may not be possible to make such a claim if say it only cost £200). Also, if the appliance was written off by the engineer you would have a strong case that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time. Finally, if you suffer repeated breakdowns you can claim it isn’t fit for its purpose or has some design defects.
One thing I can virtually guarantee is that if you contact the retailer you bought it from they will almost certainly just say there’s nothing they can do, it’s out of guarantee. They may even have the audacity to make a quip about “if you’d taken out our insurance..”
Having to spend £89 after 3, years 3 months is disappointing, but if it was me I doubt I would feel it worth getting involved in a battle for compensation.
Likely replying to Washerhelp
Washerhelp, i guessed you were right , i cant be bothered for the £89.00 i paid , and having a trouble free appliance for 3 years i guess I’ve not done too bad.
I wil lmonitor my appliance for further breakdown and see if it is an inherent fault.
Great posts, keep them going. Just checked the ice making compartment, its working and have ice, thank god i have ice for my Jack Daniels and coke , Gin and Tonics for summer ahead hehehehe.
Thanks
Alan
2 replies I purchased a Hotpoint fridge/freezer , with a 10 year parts only guarantee 8 years ago. It stopped chilling on 12th January, an engineer came out on 19th, the part needed is still not available and there's not ETA for it! I paid extra for the appliance knowing that in the case of a breakdown, I would only have to pay for the labour and that I would have a working appliance for 10 years. I was wondering what my rights are regarding how long I can be expected to wait for the part and what happens if they can't get one.
I purchased a Hotpoint fridge/freezer , with a 10 year parts only guarantee 8 years ago. It stopped chilling on 12th January, an engineer came out on 19th, the part needed is still not available and there’s not ETA for it!
I paid extra for the appliance knowing that in the case of a breakdown, I would only have to pay for the labour and that I would have a working appliance for 10 years.
I was wondering what my rights are regarding how long I can be expected to wait for the part and what happens if they can’t get one.
Hello Sheila. I don’t think your issue is covered under the consumer rights act 2015. Apart from anything, the consumer rights act 2015 only covers us for 6 years (5 in Scotland). But also, the parts-only guarantees that are common with many white goods manufacturers, are always in addition to our consumer rights. They are essentially a “free” extra guarantee. Now I would argue that they are included in the price, and therefore not really free. But as we do not pay separately for them, it’s not really considered to be something we pay for. But even if it was, any rights under the consumer rights like would only cover us for five or six years.
As far as I can see, manufacturer’s probably make money on most of these guarantees, and they aren’t really worth the paper that they are written on. This is because they still charge for labour, which is can be as much as £130 these days. The majority of repairs on white goods appliances either don’t need any spare parts fitting, or only need parts that are relatively inexpensive – especially to the manufacturer.
The spare parts required to fix your appliance not being available is sadly very common these days. It is in fact now become the norm. I think manufacturers are likely to make sure spare parts are available for at least six years, because if they don’t, there will be problems related to the consumer rights act. But after that, we have absolutely no rights whatsoever.
2 replies Hi, I hope you can help? I purchased an integrated fridge freezer on the 31.08.220 and it broke down on the 12.12 2022. The model is a BEKO ICQFDB155. An engineer from BEKO came out today 20.12.22 and informed me it's a right off due to the insulation failing. We don't have an extended warranty so have to purchase a new fridge freezer at our own cost, I was told there is nothing they can do to help. I have just had a look online and the model is now discontinued. Do I have a valid case for consumer rights act 2015? Any advice would be gratefully received. Many Thanks
Hi, I hope you can help?
I purchased an integrated fridge freezer on the 31.08.220 and it broke down on the 12.12 2022.
The model is a BEKO ICQFDB155.
An engineer from BEKO came out today 20.12.22 and informed me it’s a right off due to the insulation failing.
We don’t have an extended warranty so have to purchase a new fridge freezer at our own cost, I was told there is nothing they can do to help.
I have just had a look online and the model is now discontinued.
Do I have a valid case for consumer rights act 2015?
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Many Thanks
Hello. Yes you do, but not with the manufacturer. Only with the retailer. If its only lasted 2 years that’s likely to be seen as not long enough, unless it was extremely cheap. Goods should last a reasonable time. You need to contact whoever you bought it from and tell them that under the Consumer Rights Act an appliance should be of sufficient quality to last a reasonable time and it clearly wasn’t.
2 replies I am fed up of paying for the extended warranty with DomGen for a washing machine. I worked out if i could buy a new Miele it would pay for itself. They only generally offer 5 year guarantees although the talk around the net is they can last 15-20 years. If you are paying around £900-1000 and after 7 years you need a repair what recourse would you have from the retailer ? They do sell extended 10 year guaranteeds for £149 but if you are having to pay £1000 in the first place why pay more that defeats the whole object of buying a Miele. Surely a washing machine costing £1000 should last 10 years that is a reasonable time (IMO) so that would be £100 per year trouble free washing. Alternatively i could buy a cheap £200 machine and get 2 years guarantee and then if it breaks buy a new one ! These companies really do get you by the short and curlies ! I look forward to your reply Louis
I am fed up of paying for the extended warranty with DomGen for a washing machine. I worked out if i could buy a new Miele
it would pay for itself. They only generally offer 5 year guarantees although the talk around the net is they can last 15-20 years. If you are paying around £900-1000 and after 7 years you need a repair what recourse would you have from the retailer ? They do sell extended 10 year guaranteeds for £149 but if you are having to pay £1000 in the first place why pay more that defeats the whole object of buying a Miele. Surely a washing machine costing £1000 should last 10 years that is a reasonable time (IMO) so that would be £100 per year trouble free washing. Alternatively i could buy a cheap £200 machine and get 2 years guarantee and then if it breaks buy a new one ! These companies really do get you by the short and curlies !
I look forward to your reply
Louis
Likely replying to Louis
Hello Louis: I don’t generally rate extended warranties and have an article on them here – Extended warranties – what you need to know
You aren’t the first person to ask about Miele extended warranties too, I have this article you might be interested in – Should I take out this (Miele) 5 year extended warranty?
Regarding buying a Miele and it breaking down after 7 years it would depend entirely on how much it had been used, how it had been used, and what had gone wrong. Neither the Sale of Goods Act or Miele claim an appliance should never break down. If it was a reasonable cost to repair it might be considered normal for a 7 year old washer (even a high quality one) to need some maintenance or repair. But if it was going to cost so much that it wasn’t far off the cost of a new one I would definitely argue it hadn’t lasted anywhere near as long as it should have done for the cost, the high quality reputation of the brand and the manufacturer’s claim it was built to last 20 years.
Thanks for the advice.
If I bought a Miele i think i’d take the £149 extended warranty (equivalent to £30 a year !) which is cheap by extended warranty standards.
On the other hand considering a samsung washer dryer at costco, samsung confirmed its eligible for a 5 year warranty, costco give it 3 years. But employee at costco confirmed if it breaks after the warranty expires as long as its under 10 years you can return it for a refund ! They won’t arrange a repair
I’ve never returned something “well used” before I’ve read people take advantage of costco’s return policy like returning half eaten birthday cake ! It would be hassle to return it i suppose but hiring a courrier would be cheaper than paying out on extended warranty i suppose.
2 replies Anita: Your fight is with the retailer. It should last a reasonable time, you may have a case depending on how much it is going to cost to fix.
Anita: Your fight is with the retailer. It should last a reasonable time, you may have a case depending on how much it is going to cost to fix.
Well further to my post 13th may i am very happy to say that i emailed currys quoting the sale of goods and the fault with my tv.
They responded the next day for me to call them so they could arrange pick up of my tv. First off though there was a £95 charge to pick up and diagnose which would be refunded if indeed it was manufacturer fault.
I had a phone call today advising me of redelivery of my tv and i would be credited back my £95 as was an inherent fault.
Very happy. Good quick service and no arguments.
Thanks for the advice. ;-)
2 replies Hi i am looking for some advice, i purchased a white samsung tv from a company called beyond televisions, the tv cost £750 and broke down after just 6 months, Beyond did get someone out to take the tv out and repair it but now the tv is showing the exact same fault. i contacted beyond who have told me that the tv is now over the 1 year warranty and they can't help me now. can you please give me some advice as i am very angry at this. for a brand new tv to give 2 exactly the same faults within 14 months is not acceptible Please help Chris
Hi
i am looking for some advice, i purchased a white samsung tv from a company called beyond televisions, the tv cost £750 and broke down after just 6 months, Beyond did get someone out to take the tv out and repair it but now the tv is showing the exact same fault.
i contacted beyond who have told me that the tv is now over the 1 year warranty and they can’t help me now. can you please give me some advice as i am very angry at this. for a brand new tv to give 2 exactly the same faults within 14 months is not acceptible
Please help
Chris
Likely replying to Chris
Dear Chris,
Your comment was passed on to me, so here is my reply:
Firstly, I need to explain I am not legally qualified, but I am happy to give you my opinion. Secondly, it is vital that you phone Trading Standards at 0845-404-0506. The advisors there are authorised by the Office of Fair Trading. I had to phone them myself recently after our £200 Samsung washing machine basically died after 2 and a half year
In my personal view, you would need to remind the retailer (who is responsible to you in this case) that even under EU law we have a minimum 2-year cover, and that in any case, since the original fault has not been cured, this failure extends their claimed 1-year cover until the repair is permanent (within the 6 years).
(Please ask Trading Standards if they agree with this!) I would ask T.S. how often the same fault has to occur before you could claim a new replacement or refund.
T.S. may give you advice which means that if the retailer does not agree to comply with their ruling, you would have to take them to the Small Claims Court. As a Limited company has to be represented in the Small Claims Court by a solicitor, and their solicitors would be writing letters to you, it becomes very expensive for them to defend the case, with the risk of additional costs being awarded to you, so they would not normally defend the case in court, but would settle shortly before the case was due to be heard. Retailers assume that you would not ‘go all the way’, because of the hassle involved, but it is important for consumers to take them on until retailers generally get the message. Even the threat of taking them to court may be enough for some retailers, especially in the current economic climate. If, after advice, it turns out that you feel you have to return the TV to the retailer for a refund or replacement with another make, and they refuse, and you buy a replacement somewhere else, you would then claim all the costs through the court.
Also, you should be able to obtain 30 minutes free advice on the matter from any solicitor, I understand, but check first! As using the Small Claims Court may put you off, you can always phone me at 01253-899742 for info about my experience. Please obtain all the leaflets from the court, which will freely be posted to you if you ask your local court.
Hope this helps,
Ken Gorman
Likely replying to Chris
Hi Chris: When they said they can’t help you now as it’s out of guarantee they really meant they can’t help you now without inconvenience and cost to themselves. I sympathise with retailers caught in the middle of poor quality products and consumers but as they are profiting from selling these products the government has decided to make them responsible. That way if certain products cost them a lot of money because of extended claims under the sale of goods act they will stop selling them or pressure manufacturers to make them more reliable.
Unfortunately they do have responsibilities under the sale of goods act and you can claim compensation up to 6 years after purchase in the UK. By claim though I mean try to claim.
As my article states though, this in no way means you have a 6 year guarantee (5 in Scotland) covering all faults, it just means consumers can make a claim under the sale of goods act up to 6 years but the claim could be rejected by the courts if it isn’t deemed valid. As Ken says, you need to get the advice of Trading Standards and if they say you have a case confront the shop with it. If they still refuse to do anything you have to take them to the small claims court or at least threaten to.
These “rights” are in no way clear cut, and few if any retailers will willingly give them to us. They have to be fought for either by being insistent, speaking to managers, writing to head office or taking them to the small claims court. I want to claim compensation from the repair company or the washing machine seller
1 reply I purchased a dishwasher 30th April 22 it has stopped working 20 May 23 I was told I would have to pay a minimum of £119 to have it accessed from currys because it is out of warranty
I purchased a dishwasher 30th April 22 it has stopped working 20 May 23 I was told I would have to pay a minimum of £119 to have it accessed from currys because it is out of warranty
Hi Emma. Yes, I do mention this in my article. Until the cause of the fault is discovered, no one will do anything. Imagine if they sent you a new dishwasher and that didn’t work either, because the fault turned out to be a faulty wall socket.
It’s only when the exact nature of the fault is known that both the retailer and indeed yourself can decide what the next step is.
1 reply Hi I bought a Samsung American fridge freezer in 2006 and have been paying breakdown cover on it monthly ever since purchased At the beginning of April 2023, the ice making compartment stopped working. A Currys engineer visited 5 times to try to rectify the fault. On last visit I was told it was not repairable and that I would receive a gift card to purchase a new fridge freezer of same spec that is now available as original model. I have been offered an e gift card for £699. The cheapest new model I can see on the website is in excess of £1100. Do you think this is an acceptable offer from Currys as the engineer indicated I would be offered gift card to enable me to purchase a similar model at 2023 price. Hope this makes sense Thank you
Hi
I bought a Samsung American fridge freezer in 2006 and have been paying breakdown cover on it monthly ever since purchased
At the beginning of April 2023, the ice making compartment stopped working. A Currys engineer visited 5 times to try to rectify the fault. On last visit I was told it was not repairable and that I would receive a gift card to purchase a new fridge freezer of same spec that is now available as original model. I have been offered an e gift card for £699. The cheapest new model I can see on the website is in excess of £1100. Do you think this is an acceptable offer from Currys as the engineer indicated I would be offered gift card to enable me to purchase a similar model at 2023 price. Hope this makes sense
Thank you
1 reply Hi iv had hoover washer 6months iv had to replace the paddles twice and now the drum needs replacing its so frustrating as iv got two young children and a mother i care for that needs her bedding changed nearly every day can I ask for a replacement as I cant be waiting weeks. Thanks for reading
Hi iv had hoover washer 6months iv had to replace the paddles twice and now the drum needs replacing its so frustrating as iv got two young children and a mother i care for that needs her bedding changed nearly every day can I ask for a replacement as I cant be waiting weeks. Thanks for reading
Hello Sian. Unfortunately, after six months have passed the onus passes onto the consumer to prove that there is an inherent fault. However, in your case I would cite the fact that the paddles have had to be replaced twice, and now the drum needs replacing as proof that there was an inherent fault when it was sold to you and therefore it has breached the consumer rights act 2015.
Sadly, retailers notoriously make it very difficult for consumers to get their consumer rights unless they are faced with an extremely blatant case. Also make sure you are not washing trainers. I believe they can damage the drum paddles.
1 reply Hi I bought a side by side Kenwood fridge and freezer from Currys 18 months ago. I didnt pay for any extra guarantee The fridge stopped working a couple of days ago (it became very hot inside) I rang Currys who couldnt come out for 10 days so I spoke to a local engineer who came to check it the same day. He said it was irreparable as there had been a slow gas leak which was why it had taken days for me to realise that it wasnt working properly. He gave me a report to say the same and recommended that I go back to Currys and ask them to replace it or a least compensate me. I rang Currys once more to update them on the problem and as it is a "consumers rights issue" they will call me back in about 5 days. They didnt even ask what the fault was. Can I expect any help under the Consumer Goods Act? The fridge is now discontinued and as I need a new one that creates a problem in that I wont be able to match it up with my freezer. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me
Hi
I bought a side by side Kenwood fridge and freezer from Currys 18 months ago. I didnt pay for any extra guarantee The fridge stopped working a couple of days ago (it became very hot inside) I rang Currys who couldnt come out for 10 days so I spoke to a local engineer who came to check it the same day. He said it was irreparable as there had been a slow gas leak which was why it had taken days for me to realise that it wasnt working properly. He gave me a report to say the same and recommended that I go back to Currys and ask them to replace it or a least compensate me. I rang Currys once more to update them on the problem and as it is a “consumers rights issue” they will call me back in about 5 days. They didnt even ask what the fault was.
Can I expect any help under the Consumer Goods Act? The fridge is now discontinued and as I need a new one that creates a problem in that I wont be able to match it up with my freezer.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me
Hi Ann. Yes its the retailer you have rights with. If the appliance is unrepairable, and you have an independent report saying this, then the retailer has breached the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because they sold you an appliance that has not lasted a reasonable time, and/or was not of sufficient quality.
If it’s lasted 18 months, they can knock off an appropriate amount because you have had 18 months use. I would tell them that it should have lasted at least 10 years.
1 reply Hi, I bought a Hotpoint Dual fuel cooker in 2019, 14 months later the thermostat in the oven went and it burned all the food. They refused to fix it as it was over a year old and I had to pay a company they recommended in the service booklet to come and fix it. Now, not even three years later the same problem is happening. Any advice please?
Hi, I bought a Hotpoint Dual fuel cooker in 2019, 14 months later the thermostat in the oven went and it burned all the food. They refused to fix it as it was over a year old and I had to pay a company they recommended in the service booklet to come and fix it. Now, not even three years later the same problem is happening. Any advice please?
Hello Hycie. This is a difficult one, because of the gap between the 2 incidents. It does feel as if the thermostat is not of sufficient quality if it has failed twice. The problem is that at this stage you would have to prove that the thermostat has an inherent fault, or is of such poor quality that it keeps failing. This is extremely difficult to do.
Something like this also depends on how it is used. So for example if it was on for several hours a day cooking in a café or restaurant, or for an extremely large family, then it might be argued that it is inevitable that things will fairly regularly break down. But if it’s only been used lightly, or in totally normal circumstances, most people would agree that it is very poor for a thermostat to fail twice in just over 4 years.
The problem you will face is that the manufacturer will simply not be interested in anything you have to complain about. They will just tell you it is out of guarantee, well out of guarantee, and therefore is fully chargeable. Any consumer rights that you may have, would be with the retailer. But the retailer will just tell you the same. They always do. They are not remotely interested in giving free repairs, compensation, or replacement appliances. Not unless they are forced to, or when faced with blatantly obvious and unavoidable evidence.
Once an appliance gets to over 4 years old, the retailer will do everything they can to avoid doing anything. So unless you can get a consumer rights organisation to help you (such as citizens advice), or an independent report that says that the thermostats have an inherent fault, or are of insufficient quality, you will just be fobbed off.
It’s depressing, but I’ve seen enough cases over the years to just know how they all work. If the thermostat had failed 3 times, for example, you would have a stronger case for claiming this part is clearly of insufficient quality or has an inherent fault in its design. Likewise, if the first thermostat that was fitted had failed within several months, that would also be a stronger case. But twice in 4 years is poor, but more difficult to say for certain that this is in breach of the consumer rights act 2015. If you want to pursue this, you need to pursue it with the retailer, but I would contact citizens advice first.
1 reply Hi I bought a Hotpoint freestanding gas cooker, via Appliances Direct. It was delivered and fitted on the 20/12/22. unfortunately the gas went out on the 3 occasions in the main oven when cooking the Christmas meals. also when my wife removed the shelves to reposition them the side shelf supports fell away from there position and hit her finger and caused a minor burn. We informed Appliances Direct and rejected the cooker as it was under 30 days. There response was that we had to contact Hotpoint and ask for an uplift number. We have done this but when we mentioned that my wife had burnt her finger, they came in and disconnected the cooker and put do not use stickers on it, this was on the 05/01/23. I still have a cooker i can't use and its taking for ages to get anything sorted. Hotpoint have come back and have agreed to refund cost of cooker only, am i not entitled to be refunded the cost of connection and delivery of original cooker as i would then be in the financial position i was in before faults.
Hi I bought a Hotpoint freestanding gas cooker, via Appliances Direct. It was delivered and fitted on the 20/12/22. unfortunately the gas went out on the 3 occasions in the main oven when cooking the Christmas meals. also when my wife removed the shelves to reposition them the side shelf supports fell away from there position and hit her finger and caused a minor burn. We informed Appliances Direct and rejected the cooker as it was under 30 days. There response was that we had to contact Hotpoint and ask for an uplift number. We have done this but when we mentioned that my wife had burnt her finger, they came in and disconnected the cooker and put do not use stickers on it, this was on the 05/01/23. I still have a cooker i can’t use and its taking for ages to get anything sorted. Hotpoint have come back and have agreed to refund cost of cooker only, am i not entitled to be refunded the cost of connection and delivery of original cooker as i would then be in the financial position i was in before faults.
Hello Mark. Hotpoint have no obligation to refund the cost of the cooker. If you think about it, you didn’t give them any money at all. All of your money went to the retailer. It’s therefore only the retailer that you have a contract with, and only the retailer is legally responsible under the consumer rights act 2015.
If a manufacturer is willing to take responsibility, and properly compensate or fully replace an appliance, that’s great. It saves a lot of hassle for you. But it’s very rare for them to do this because they know they have no legal obligation. Their only obligation to you, is to carry out repairs while it is under their initial 12-month guarantee. I suspect that maybe they can’t repair it, and that is the only reason they are offering anything at all. If they could repair it, or if they could repair it without it costing them as much or more than a refund, then I’m pretty sure they would be insisting that all they could do was repair it.
The retailer is clearly very happy for Hotpoint themselves to replace the cooker, as it saves them any cost and trouble. However, the retailer should replace the cooker and arrange to have it installed. They, in turn, should be able to claim back from Hotpoint. At the end of the day, the retailer bought the cooker from Hotpoint, you, bought the cooker from the retailer.
I would use the fact that Hotpoint have agreed to refund the cost of the cooker as irrefutable proof that the cooker has failed to be of sufficient standard and quality under the consumer rights act 2015. And therefore you have a right for the retailer to compensate you properly. You should not lose out financially in any way because this appliance breached the consumer rights act 2015. If they are still being unhelpful, you may need to contact citizens advice, or Which?
1 reply Hi, I bought a bunch of Neff appliances through Wren when I purchased my kitchen last year, and within a year in September I noticed my steam oven leaking water when using the sous-vide function. I called Wren and they said to book a repair with the manufacturer. I booked an appointment with Neff(Bosch) and they came out to repair it on 3rd October 22 (within the 2 years warranty period). The engineer could fix it an has come out about 4 times with parts and it still leaks. So now it has gone to Neff HQ in Germany for a resolution, but I am being played by Neff UK, saying they are waiting for a response from Neff in Germany. I have contacted them multiple times and all they are saying is they have to wait for a response from Germany. This issue has gone on for 3 months. I just want my oven replaced for a new one. What are my rights to complain to an ombudsman? Kind regards, Eddie
Hi,
I bought a bunch of Neff appliances through Wren when I purchased my kitchen last year, and within a year in September I noticed my steam oven leaking water when using the sous-vide function. I called Wren and they said to book a repair with the manufacturer. I booked an appointment with Neff(Bosch) and they came out to repair it on 3rd October 22 (within the 2 years warranty period). The engineer could fix it an has come out about 4 times with parts and it still leaks. So now it has gone to Neff HQ in Germany for a resolution, but I am being played by Neff UK, saying they are waiting for a response from Neff in Germany. I have contacted them multiple times and all they are saying is they have to wait for a response from Germany.
This issue has gone on for 3 months. I just want my oven replaced for a new one. What are my rights to complain to an ombudsman?
Kind regards,
Eddie
Hi Eddie. Your rights are under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and are with the people you bought it from. I’ve seen countless cases where people’s kitchen appliances bought with the house are faulty but the building companies don’t want to deal with it. They don’t seem to see themselves as retailers, but if they sold it to you they are responsible under UK consumer law.
Uilders always just keep repearu g that you ha e to deal with the manufacturer but this is untrue when your consumer rights have been breached. You have a right for any repairs to be carried out within a reasonable time, and most people would see 3 months and multiple visits as way past reasonable.
You need to pursue the people you bought it from for a replacement, or refund, which they will be extremely reluctant to do. You may need help from a consumer rights group like Citizens Advice
If Neff cared enough they could give you a replacement but they don’t have to.
1 reply Hi I purchased a Hotpoint Combination Microwave in July 2020 and was able to use it for 9 months and it caught fire/blew up. I contacted the warranty and they told me to contact the small domestic appliance Team at Hotpoint Service. which I did on the 9th June 2021. I had left it until this time because of Covid, they could not come out until this time. They came and picked it up on the 6th July 2021 and I have still not contacted me regarding this or offered me a replacement. Every time I ring they say they will have to look into it and find out what is happening with it and keep fobbing me off and nobody ever gets back to me. I paid £189.99 for this microwave and it just seems like I have lost my money on this and have no microwave to show for it either. Nobody seems to care and I just keep hitting a brick wall with whoever I speak to. Is there any advice you could offer me please. Many Thanks
Hi I purchased a Hotpoint Combination Microwave in July 2020 and was able to use it for 9 months and it caught fire/blew up. I contacted the warranty and they told me to contact the small domestic appliance Team at Hotpoint Service. which I did on the 9th June 2021. I had left it until this time because of Covid, they could not come out until this time. They came and picked it up on the 6th July 2021 and I have still not contacted me regarding this or offered me a replacement. Every time I ring they say they will have to look into it and find out what is happening with it and keep fobbing me off and nobody ever gets back to me. I paid £189.99 for this microwave and it just seems like I have lost my money on this and have no microwave to show for it either. Nobody seems to care and I just keep hitting a brick wall with whoever I speak to. Is there any advice you could offer me please. Many Thanks
1 reply Hi I bought an hotpoint tumble dryer that broke down with the 1st 3 months of purchase. I wasn’t happy and asked for it to be replaced and got told they had to repair it. Since then it need repair 3 more times. It’s a 12 month old appliance. I haven’t been able to get through their costumer service and the only thing I got told was to buy their protection plan. Is there anything I can do about it?
Hi I bought an hotpoint tumble dryer that broke down with the 1st 3 months of purchase. I wasn’t happy and asked for it to be replaced and got told they had to repair it. Since then it need repair 3 more times. It’s a 12 month old appliance. I haven’t been able to get through their costumer service and the only thing I got told was to buy their protection plan. Is there anything I can do about it?
1 reply hi I purchased an AEG dishwasher-it was one of the high-end models. My 2-year warranty finished at the beginning of August. The dishes stopped washing and AEG sent their engineer 'Pacifica' to look at the appliance. However, they ran the tests and the machine worked. However, the dishes still do not wash. Three engineers have seen the dishwasher, and one engineer actually wrote, "The customer wants a new appliance. They are fabricating a story'. since the dishwasher no longer switches on. What can I do? Many thanks for your help. Em
hi
I purchased an AEG dishwasher-it was one of the high-end models.
My 2-year warranty finished at the beginning of August.
The dishes stopped washing and AEG sent their engineer ‘Pacifica’ to look at the appliance. However, they ran the tests and the machine worked. However, the dishes still do not wash. Three engineers have seen the dishwasher, and one engineer actually wrote, “The customer wants a new appliance. They are fabricating a story’. since the dishwasher no longer switches on.
What can I do?
Many thanks for your help.
Em
Hello Em. I can only presume that when the engineer wrote that the customer wants a new appliance he wasn’t recommending that they replaced it, but just registering your position. The problem is that if engineers cannot find fault then they will not replace the appliance.
What do you mean when you say the dishes still do not wash? Do mean that it is completing the wash cycles okay, and finishing as normal, but when you inspect the dishes they are not washed satisfactorily?
If so, have you changed the wash cycle that you use recently, have you changed the dishwasher tablets? I can report that without a doubt dishwasher tablets can make a massive difference. We have been using Magnum dishwasher tablets from Aldi, which got rave reviews from which? for years. My wife decided to buy some cheaper ones several weeks back (an own brand from Morrisons) and my white cups were coming out covered in tea stains inside. They gave dreadful results, and switching back to the original magnum dishwasher tablets got them clean again.
1 reply I have a candy washing machine which I bought in March 2020, the guarantee expires in March 2022, I bought for £219. When I called Domestic & General re cover they told me £168 for annual cover or £17 a month for a commitment of 12 months. My washing machine has just burnt out, I can smell burning rubber 1st June 2022. Would I be covered under consumer act to go back to retailer ?
I have a candy washing machine which I bought in March 2020, the guarantee expires in March 2022, I bought for £219. When I called Domestic & General re cover they told me £168 for annual cover or £17 a month for a commitment of 12 months. My washing machine has just burnt out, I can smell burning rubber 1st June 2022. Would I be covered under consumer act to go back to retailer ?
Hi Nita. It will depend on exactly what has gone wrong with the washing machine. If the washer has been quite noisy for a while the bearings may have collapsed, which is a major fault. You may have some redress with the retailer in that case. But burning rubber smell could be caused by something getting trapped in the door seal and being dragged round by the drum, which wouldn’t necessarily be a serious fault.
The problem in these situations is that just the fact that something has broken down doesn’t mean a lot until you know what has failed, which usually means an engineer to look at it.
1 reply Hi there, I had a Bosch fridge freezer delivered, unpacked and installed from AO. Once I left it to stand and power on for a few days I noticed a few issues with the unit. There is a dent on the fridge door that was initially hard to spot. It's not a true 50/50 split as was advertised, closer to 60/40. The volume of the freezer unit is smaller than the 84l, because my existing Hotpoint fridge freezer was 84l also and it measures and feels a lot bigger. There was also a potential issue with the noise of the compressor. I tried to get them to refund or exchange it at first but they sent out an engineer intially. After his tests he said the compressor was okay and to spec. He also said that the dent would have been caused during transit and if I wanted I should be able to get an exchange. I contacted AO again stating my issues with the dent and the fact the the spilt and the freezer volume are not 50/50 or close to 84l and they said that as it had been used they would only offer a small discount (5%) as they wouldn't be able to do anything with the item. Could you advise what my rights are? Thanks.
Hi there,
I had a Bosch fridge freezer delivered, unpacked and installed from AO. Once I left it to stand and power on for a few days I noticed a few issues with the unit. There is a dent on the fridge door that was initially hard to spot. It’s not a true 50/50 split as was advertised, closer to 60/40. The volume of the freezer unit is smaller than the 84l, because my existing Hotpoint fridge freezer was 84l also and it measures and feels a lot bigger. There was also a potential issue with the noise of the compressor.
I tried to get them to refund or exchange it at first but they sent out an engineer intially. After his tests he said the compressor was okay and to spec. He also said that the dent would have been caused during transit and if I wanted I should be able to get an exchange.
I contacted AO again stating my issues with the dent and the fact the the spilt and the freezer volume are not 50/50 or close to 84l and they said that as it had been used they would only offer a small discount (5%) as they wouldn’t be able to do anything with the item. Could you advise what my rights are?
Thanks.
Apologies John, I meant to reply to this sooner. I think the fact that the appliance has been used may be a valid reason for them to refuse to exchange it under the distance selling act. This states that you can return an appliance purchased remotely within 14 days. But we should reject the appliance and not use it as soon as we notice the issues and I assume we are expected to notice them when we examine them before plugging it in.
Your issues highlight exactly why we have that right. It’s only once we actually physically see the product that we can notice certain things such as those that you pointed out.
But although we have up to 14 days, once we have used the appliance then I believe we are assumed to have accepted it. A lot of people misunderstand why we have up to 14 days and assume that once we start using the appliance we have up to 14 days but I believe the 14 days is to just to cover most normal circumstances people may encounter. So for example, if it was delivered whilst you were on holiday, (assuming someone allowed them access), and you didn’t notice the problems until you unpacked it when you returned home, you still have enough time to send it back. Obviously, any appliance sent back like that can be resold. But not if it has been used.
However, your problems cover more than one right. You also have the right for a replacement if the appliance is delivered damaged. So that’s the right that I would concentrate on. The only issue there is if they accept the reason why it took a while to report, which does seem to be the case.
I suspect that if the dent was the only issue, you would probably have been happy to accept a discount. But understandably, combined with your other issues, I can see why you would want it replaced.
I think it all boils down to whether they would be prepared to replace it for such minor damage. They may well try to get you to accept a price reduction, which if it really is minor does make a lot of sense. But I would expect that we have a right to expect a brand-new product to be perfect, and completely undamaged, so they may initially be reluctant, but may well relent under pressure.
1 reply I had a Bosch oven and combi microwave fitted yesterday. When I was wiping it down I noticed a small dent in the stainless steel fascia. I reported this to Curries who stood us that they coul do anything about that day as it was showing on their screen that it was still out for delivery, and that we should phone today. We have now contacted the. Again and now they say that they will give us a discount but that they will not replace it. An you tell me what my rights are.
I had a Bosch oven and combi microwave fitted yesterday. When I was wiping it down I noticed a small dent in the stainless steel fascia. I reported this to Curries who stood us that they coul do anything about that day as it was showing on their screen that it was still out for delivery, and that we should phone today. We have now contacted the. Again and now they say that they will give us a discount but that they will not replace it. An you tell me what my rights are.
1 reply Hi there My AEG fridge freezer has stopped working after 30 months. It is therefore out of its 24 month warranty period. We had an independent engineer out to inspect and has declared that is it not fixable without incurring significant cost. We have been without a working appliance for 3 weeks now and have been forced to buy a replacement. What recourse do we have against AEG/electrolux? I reported the issue to them on 22 March and so far I am going round in circles with them via resolver.co.uk. I have provided all the info they have requested and so far nothing. Can I claim for a refund via small claims? Mary
Hi there
My AEG fridge freezer has stopped working after 30 months. It is therefore out of its 24 month warranty period. We had an independent engineer out to inspect and has declared that is it not fixable without incurring significant cost. We have been without a working appliance for 3 weeks now and have been forced to buy a replacement. What recourse do we have against AEG/electrolux? I reported the issue to them on 22 March and so far I am going round in circles with them via resolver.co.uk. I have provided all the info they have requested and so far nothing. Can I claim for a refund via small claims?
Mary
Hello Mary. I would imagine Resolver.co.uk would be a better place to answer that question regarding the Small Claims Court, but I would think that would definitely be a last resort that could potentially work. If a fridge freezer is essentially scrapped after 30 months, then it’s very likely to have breached the Consumer Rights Act 2015. It obviously hasn’t lasted a reasonable time, even if it was relatively cheap.
But as I have mentioned many times before, unfortunately the manufacture does not have any legal obligation regarding the consumer rights act. The responsibility is completely laid at the retailer’s door. So essentially you are in dispute with the wrong people. Although it’s perfectly possible for a manufacturer to accept some responsibility, and make efforts to keep a customer happy, unfortunately they don’t seem to do it very often.
The problem is likely to be centred around the fact that AEG are highly unlikely to accept the word of an independent engineer, especially if it is a local and small business. They are very likely to need to inspect the fridge freezer themselves. To be fair, no one would accept the word of a third party engineer in these kind of circumstances.
If you have thrown the appliance away now then you would have to take them to the Small Claims Court, and prove to a Small Claims Court judge that the appliance failed and could not be repaired economically, presumably using a written report by the engineer that looked at it.
If you do not have a written report, and you do not have the freezer any more, then I would think it virtually impossible to claim any compensation. If you do have them, and AEG are just refusing to accept the engineer’s opinion then unless you can negotiate with them through resolver to get some satisfaction or some compromise then it would be down to whether the judge accepted it or not.
The good news is that it is not difficult or expensive to use the Small Claims Court, though obviously it does involve time, effort and some expense. If you do have the freezer, then I would think AEG would need to inspect it before they would admit of any fault, unless they are internally aware that quite a few of their freezers have suffered similar fates and have the decency to offer you some sort of compensation.
1 reply hi i have a hover candy washing machine i got from currys its only 2month old and it was smoking from the back. I hav had 2 enginers out to see it and they said that its a moter proplem and the have orderd the parts its been 2weeks an i have not heard anything.I have been on the phone everyday today i was on phone for over a hour and spoke to 7 diffrent people.Just passing this all over the place in the end i got to speke to a adviser wicth told me to go to currys where i got this machine and ask for a new machine.Im just wondering is this the right thing to do
hi i have a hover candy washing machine i got from currys its only 2month old and it was smoking from the back. I hav had 2 enginers out to see it and they said that its a moter proplem and the have orderd the parts its been 2weeks an i have not heard anything.I have been on the phone everyday today i was on phone for over a hour and spoke to 7 diffrent people.Just passing this all over the place in the end i got to speke to a adviser wicth told me to go to currys where i got this machine and ask for a new machine.Im just wondering is this the right thing to do
1 reply I HAVE A 3 YEAR SAMSUNG FRIDGE / FREEZER THAT HAS A 10 YEAR WARRATY ON THE COMPRESSER , WE HAD TO PAY AN ENGINEER OF THERE CHOICE WHO SAID THE DIGITAL INVERTER HAD BROKEN DOWN & UNREPAIRABLE WE MADE CONTACT WITH SAMSUNG WITH LIMIT RESPONSE & STILL AT OUR COST BEING PALMED OFF.
I HAVE A 3 YEAR SAMSUNG FRIDGE / FREEZER THAT HAS A 10 YEAR WARRATY ON THE COMPRESSER , WE HAD TO PAY AN ENGINEER OF THERE CHOICE WHO SAID THE DIGITAL INVERTER HAD BROKEN DOWN & UNREPAIRABLE WE MADE CONTACT WITH SAMSUNG WITH LIMIT RESPONSE & STILL AT OUR COST BEING PALMED OFF.
Likely replying to PETER MCGIHON
Hello Peter. Extra long warranties and guarantees like 10 years usually have some sort of terms and conditions. They will certainly exclude what they would judge as wear and tear but there could be other exclusions.
There are some sneaky extra warranties that companies advertise but when it comes down to it they may only cover a small percentage of events that is highly unlikely to happen anyway. Is there a way to doublecheck what the warranty actually covers? Exactly why have they said that it is not covered?
I think that you probably need to claim against the retailer that sold it to you under the consumer rights act 2015. Regardless of how long any manufacturers guarantee is, even if it is only the standard 12 months, we have a right to claim a free repair or replacement if the appliance we were sold turns out to be in breach of the consumer rights act.
A fridge freezer that only lasts three years and then is beyond economical repair should definitely be covered as long as it has been subject to normal household use. If it has been using any commercial environment then usually that is covered in one of their exclusion clauses.
A fridge freezer should last around 10 years so it has not lasted a reasonable amount of time and has not been fit for purpose. Either that or there was an inherent fault on the compressor.
1 reply We bought a washer/dryer from John Lewis just over two years ago and it has now developed a fault and will not work - I think it may be a problem with the PCB but am not sure. Without coming to inspect it or even knowing what the fault is, the manufacturer says they will repair it for a fixed price of £165. The machine is now 3 months out of its warranty but cost over £700 so I feel that it shouldn't have broken in such a short time, but given that it has, I don't feel it is reasonable for me to have to pay £165 to have it repaired. This would mean that, in effect, we would have paid nearly £900 for this machine - and who is to say it won't have further problems. Do you think that we have a case against JL under the Consumer Rights Act please? If so, as I can't be without a washing machine for an extended period should I go ahead and get it repaired and try to claim the cost back from JL later?
We bought a washer/dryer from John Lewis just over two years ago and it has now developed a fault and will not work – I think it may be a problem with the PCB but am not sure. Without coming to inspect it or even knowing what the fault is, the manufacturer says they will repair it for a fixed price of £165. The machine is now 3 months out of its warranty but cost over £700 so I feel that it shouldn’t have broken in such a short time, but given that it has, I don’t feel it is reasonable for me to have to pay £165 to have it repaired. This would mean that, in effect, we would have paid nearly £900 for this machine – and who is to say it won’t have further problems. Do you think that we have a case against JL under the Consumer Rights Act please? If so, as I can’t be without a washing machine for an extended period should I go ahead and get it repaired and try to claim the cost back from JL later?
Likely replying to Steve
Hello Steve. Yes I agree, a washing machine that costs £700 should not need to have £165 spent on it to repair it after just over two years. £165 to repair what may turn out to be a very minor fault is insane. There is no wonder the world is in such a state with the massive environmental impact of throwaway goods when companies are trying to charge so much money.
I’ve always hated fixed-price repairs. I don’t think they should be allowed, but sadly it seems it is the prevailing option offered by all of the major manufacturers and nationwide repair companies these days.
Fixed price repairs can only work (for the company doing it) if the vast majority of customers are overcharged. The way that it works is that companies know that the vast majority of faults are relatively minor, and need few if any spare parts, but a small percentage are more major and need expensive parts and / or a lot of time to fix.
So what they tend to do is put in disclaimers so they can write off your appliance if it is going to be very expensive for them to repair. Faults in between that may be simple to fix but require a fairly expensive spare part are likely to be carried out because they are compensated for by all of the people who have overpaid. The vast majority of people overpay, sometimes extortionately. For example, if your washing machine is not working it may be possible that they can repair it by dealing with a poor connection, or a problem with the door catch not operating properly, or maybe just fitting apart worth £20-£30 – but they will charge you £165. It’s very simple, and it works very well apart from the fact that it seems prices have got very unrealistic indeed.
At the end of the day, everyone paying the exact same price no matter what they use is a stupid concept. Do you remember when we all paid the exact same amount for our water regardless of how much we used? Little old ladies living alone paid exactly the same as a family of seven. It’s extremely unfair. Imagine if we all paid the exact same amount for our gas and electricity regardless of how much we used.
Anyway apologies for going off at a tangent. Which manufacturer is it by the way?
Regarding your rights, they are solely with the retailer and not the manufacturer. Manufacturers may occasionally be helpful but more often than not they are not interested in doing free repairs because they legally do not need to. The sole responsibility is with the people who sold it to you. So if you have any fight about it you need to do it with John Lewis and quote the consumer rights act 2015. In my article above I linked to several other pieces of information including this one which shows some examples where people had received a free repair or replacement when the product was sometimes well outside the guarantee period out of guarantee does not necessarily mean you have to pay for repair
At the end of the day your complaint is that you should not have to spend £165 to repair something that is only a couple of years old. If the washing machine had only been one of the cheap ones at around £300 then it arguably may be different. At the end of the day I see this story playing out time and time. I even experienced it myself. The consumer rights act puts the sole onus on the retailer. But the retailer has done nothing wrong, they often didn’t make that much money selling the product in the first place. Yet they have been charged with the responsibility of up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) for any major fault that develops or if the product turns out to be not of sufficient quality, not fit for purpose or manufactured with an inherent fault. I have to confess I have a lot of sympathy for manufacturers but at the end of the day the law is the law and we have no other redress but with the retailer.
So having said that the retailers tend to be highly resistant to giving out free repairs, or giving out free new appliances. I would expect that big retailers like John Lewis though should be able to get recompense from the manufacturers. But the fact that they are so reluctant seems to contradict that assumption. Many retailers it seems deliberately keep their frontline retail staff in the dark about the true extent of consumer rights so that they have deniable plausibility when they insist there is nothing they can do and you need to complain to the manufacturer. Even John Lewis have been criticised by Which? for this sort of thing in the past. So if you get that, you need to escalate it to a manager. It is likely that any proper manager will know the true rights.
The biggest problem after this is that you don’t know how serious the fault is until someone has been to look at it. So it’s a very unsatisfactory Catch-22 situation. Under the consumer rights act the retailers can insist that you prove that a fault is inherent (i.e. poorly designed) or that it has not been caused by normal wear and tear. It is possible that after two years and three months a washing machine could have been subjected to more washing than the average person does in a 6 or 7 years. So in these cases, how something has been used is also relevant. So for example you are a family of six who washes 10 loads a week that can be seen as excessive or very heavy use and can be taken into account. Conversely if there is only one or two people in the household you could use that as evidence that it has had a very easy life.
Sadly my experience is that very few people have the time or tolerance to stress to stand their ground and see something right through to the end if the retailer is being particularly obstructive. Your main hope is that John Lewis still have a pride in their reputation, and that they will offer some sort of compensation, but if they don’t then I can only advise that you take official consumer advice from either citizens advice or Which?
Please let us know how you get on.
1 reply I bought a Beko washing machine on line from John Lewis. After two weeks of normal use (I live on my own),it has leaked a lot of water from under the machine,twice. I am 82 and should not have to get onto my knees to mop the floor. John Lewis are sending engineers tomorrow to see if there is a fault which can be repaired. I want them to remove the machine and give me an exchange. If there is a repairable fault,who is to say it won’t recur sometime in the future. Please,could you let me know my legal position. Thank you. Sonia Dreisin.
I bought a Beko washing machine on line from John Lewis. After two weeks of normal use (I live on my own),it has leaked a lot of water from under the machine,twice. I am 82 and should not have to get onto my knees to mop the floor. John Lewis are sending engineers tomorrow to see if there is a fault which can be repaired. I want them to remove the machine and give me an exchange. If there is a repairable fault,who is to say it won’t recur sometime in the future.
Please,could you let me know my legal position.
Thank you.
Sonia Dreisin.
1 reply I ordered a cooker and when I received it I had it fitted by a gas fitter, but when.i used it the first time I realised.it was faulty , I then had to pay a gas fitter again to remove it to get it picked up for inspection, they agreed that the cooker was faulty and gave me a refund , I am out of pocket now because I have to pay a gas fitter again to fit my new cooker, am I entitled to get the money back for the first fitting because the cooker was faulty and I am totally out of pocket now.
I ordered a cooker and when I received it
I had it fitted by a gas fitter, but when.i used it the first time I realised.it was faulty , I then had to pay a gas fitter again to remove it to get it picked up for inspection, they agreed that the cooker was faulty and gave me a refund , I am out of pocket now because I have to pay a gas fitter again to fit my new cooker, am I entitled to get the money back for the first fitting because the cooker was faulty and I am totally out of pocket now.
1 reply My tumble dryer broke down after 16 weeks bought on finance repair man came out fixed it but broke down next day after two and a half weeks candy is waiting for a part which they havent been able to get so I am now sitting with a dryer that is no good they dont know when they will get the part I am so disapointed because due to health issues I really need a dryer
My tumble dryer broke down after 16 weeks bought on finance repair man came out fixed it but broke down next day after two and a half weeks candy is waiting for a part which they havent been able to get so I am now sitting with a dryer that is no good they dont know when they will get the part I am so disapointed because due to health issues I really need a dryer
Likely replying to Laura
Hello Laura. Normally they would need to carry out a repair within a reasonable time. But sadly as we all know these are not normal times. It seems that many things have slowed down and even ground to a halt and we are expected to just deal with it. The chances are they will (if they haven’t already) just say that it is all due to Covid 19. You can try pressing the retailer to replace it but I honestly suspect that everyone will just say that there’s nothing can be done. If you want to make sure you would be better off trying to get help and advice from citizens advice who will be in a better position to call something like this.
1 reply My fridge freezer is Just over 2 years old. I took out a care plan on it. A year ago it wasn’t getting cold enough, the freezer items had thawed, an engineer came out replaced the pcb and it worked fine. Just over a week ago the same problem, engineer came out, replaced Pcb again and said it’s fine. Few days later after buying more shopping for fridge/freezer noticed my fridge thermometer wasn’t getting to required temperature and freezer had thawed everything out again! Engineer came out again Friday, wasn’t sure what’s wrong, said fan working but it’s not getting cold enough so he’s ordered a compressor and is coming out again today. I’ve lost 2 x full freezer loads of good but my care plan doesn’t cover for the loss. My house insurance has an excess of £150 so that’s not viable. Am I covered any other way to get compensation for loss of food?
My fridge freezer is Just over 2 years old. I took out a care plan on it. A year ago it wasn’t getting cold enough, the freezer items had thawed, an engineer came out replaced the pcb and it worked fine. Just over a week ago the same problem, engineer came out, replaced Pcb again and said it’s fine. Few days later after buying more shopping for fridge/freezer noticed my fridge thermometer wasn’t getting to required temperature and freezer had thawed everything out again! Engineer came out again Friday, wasn’t sure what’s wrong, said fan working but it’s not getting cold enough so he’s ordered a compressor and is coming out again today. I’ve lost 2 x full freezer loads of good but my care plan doesn’t cover for the loss. My house insurance has an excess of £150 so that’s not viable. Am I covered any other way to get compensation for loss of food?
Likely replying to Sam
Hello Sam. Yes you should be, although manufacturers and retailers seem to hate that and generally tend to be unhelpful. In law it is called consequential loss, that is, as a consequence of their breach of contract, or failure of their repair you have suffered further financial loss.
The loss that you have suffered could not be anticipated by you in any way. You had every reason to believe that the freezer was now repaired and it was therefore safe to stock up with food. You have an obligation to mitigate the loss in that you shouldn’t just write it all off and expect them to pay for it all. For example if you could use up some of the defrosted food by adjusting your meal plans, or if you could save some of the food by transferring into another freezer or even neighbours freezer then you should try to do that . But if it defrosted overnight and you had no warning of it then obviously none of that is possible.
One of the the problems with these sort of claims is that manufacturers or retailers do not like to just pay out money based upon what the customer says they have lost. Therefore it is highly recommended that you save all of the packaging for the damaged food. I know at least one major retailer that used to pay out based on evidence of packaging. Of course if you didn’t know this before it is possible you have thrown it all out. If so, try to find your last receipts for shopping. At the end of the day they would have to try and agree a reasonable figure, but if they accept that the freezer has broken down and it is covered by their guarantee, or that their repair has not lasted a reasonable time, then they have to accept that you will have inevitably suffered financial loss as a consequence and they cannot reasonably refute that. If they do you will need to enlist the help of somewhere like citizens advice.
1 reply I have had one years use out of a table saw which has a two year guarantee. The retailer has stated that the guarantee is given by the manufacturer and it is their responsibility. The manufacturer suggested I call out an electrician the fees for which I would be responsible, the retailer has said had of called out an electrician it would have cancelled the guarantee. The machine has been used only as a hobby machine and although the table is scratched it has actually had very little use. I believe the retailer is wrong and should be responsible under the new 2015 law. Am I correct or do I have to fight for what the manufacturer states is a two year guarantee?
I have had one years use out of a table saw which has a two year guarantee. The retailer has stated that the guarantee is given by the manufacturer and it is their responsibility. The manufacturer suggested I call out an electrician the fees for which I would be responsible, the retailer has said had of called out an electrician it would have cancelled the guarantee. The machine has been used only as a hobby machine and although the table is scratched it has actually had very little use. I believe the retailer is wrong and should be responsible under the new 2015 law. Am I correct or do I have to fight for what the manufacturer states is a two year guarantee?
Likely replying to Howard Dean
Hello Howard. If an appliance has a two year guarantee then the manufacturer is responsible for repairing the appliance within that guarantee as long as the fault is covered by it. The retailer has longer responsibilities that extend beyond the manufacturers guarantee, but it is right to say that you should normally get the manufacturer to look at their product as a first line of action if it is covered by a guarantee.
Once the appliance is out of the manufacturers guarantee then the retailer does still have responsibilities as detailed in this article. However, I’m struggling to think of any scenario where a manufacturer insisted that the fault was not covered under its guarantee but where the retailer would be responsible. The only thing I can think of is if the manufacturer claimed that something had simply worn out and was not covered but the customer felt that it had worn out in an unreasonably short time.
So if there is a fault on the appliance and it has a two year guarantee then the manufacturer should fix it. If by any chance the two year guarantee was only given on condition that you registered the appliance with them, which is actually quite common, and you didn’t register it with them then they can say that it is not covered for the extended guarantee. This is normally after the first 12 months. It’s considered a given that any new product is guaranteed for 12 month for any extra guarantee beyond that is always an extra guarantee that can come with conditions. In that case you could claim from the retailer if the product is now out of guarantee but you believe it has developed a serious or expensive fault which should not have happened considering the age and the amount of use it has had. But that would be very much dependent upon exactly what the fault is, and how expensive it was going to be to repair, how much use it has had and how much it cost in the first place.
For example if a product cost £30 and only lasted two years it might be difficult to claim that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time because £15 a year is pretty cheap. But if a product cost £300 and only lasted two years that would be different, and if it cost £3000 and only lasted two years that would be much more like a cast-iron case that the product hasn’t lasted a reasonable time for what it cost.
1 reply I bought a Samsung Fridge Freezer in September 2014 and the lining of the freezer had the appearance of having melted where the middle drawer runners were. The plastic had disintegrated leaving the melted effect inside, which I now know to be a manufacturing issue where the inside moulding failed to reach these areas ... this confirmed by Samsung's own engineer, who I know submitted a report to them on 23 December 2019. However, this was a revised report by the engineer as the first stated "customer misuse", even though he had agreed in front of myself and my husband that it was a manufacturing issue! I have correspondence with the engineer of submission of the new report stating manufacturing issue. Samsung, however, having now escalated the matter further and referred to their "product specialists" have quoted that "we would not expect a manufacturing fault to first become apparent approximately 6 years into the life of an appliance". I reported the problem when the appliance was 5 years and 3 months old ... their warranties are for 5 years. We're a retired couple, no children or grandchildren have used this appliance, we bought it and took great care of it and expected far more from it seeing as they trumpet a 10 year warranty on their motors. I'm not expecting compensation to be honest, but it just feels wrong to let Samsung get away with this when manufacturing defect has effectively been confirmed. My question is can I sensibly approach them with the Consumer Rights Act and possible small claims threat? What galls me most is that I've recently bought a Samsung washing machine, which completes my change to everthing Samsung!
I bought a Samsung Fridge Freezer in September 2014 and the lining of the freezer had the appearance of having melted where the middle drawer runners were. The plastic had disintegrated leaving the melted effect inside, which I now know to be a manufacturing issue where the inside moulding failed to reach these areas … this confirmed by Samsung’s own engineer, who I know submitted a report to them on 23 December 2019. However, this was a revised report by the engineer as the first stated “customer misuse”, even though he had agreed in front of myself and my husband that it was a manufacturing issue! I have correspondence with the engineer of submission of the new report stating manufacturing issue. Samsung, however, having now escalated the matter further and referred to their “product specialists” have quoted that “we would not expect a manufacturing fault to first become apparent approximately 6 years into the life of an appliance”. I reported the problem when the appliance was 5 years and 3 months old … their warranties are for 5 years. We’re a retired couple, no children or grandchildren have used this appliance, we bought it and took great care of it and expected far more from it seeing as they trumpet a 10 year warranty on their motors. I’m not expecting compensation to be honest, but it just feels wrong to let Samsung get away with this when manufacturing defect has effectively been confirmed. My question is can I sensibly approach them with the Consumer Rights Act and possible small claims threat? What galls me most is that I’ve recently bought a Samsung washing machine, which completes my change to everthing Samsung!
Likely replying to Diana Ryann
Hello Diana. The idea that a manufacturing fault must reveal itself straight away is flawed. If something is flawed in its manufacture it may be that it fails after several years. For example a manufacturing fault in a seal that protects the drum bearings may cause it to fail prematurely and let water into the bearings which then become very noisy and collapse. But this faulty design, or poor design, may well work adequately for years before failing prematurely.
However, I’m not 100% sure exactly what this fault is. Photos may help if you wanted to contact me using my contact form at the top of the page. If it is a manufacturing fault then as this article states we have up to 6 years to claim. But any claim is not against the manufacturer, it is against the retailer. Unfortunately this complicates matters greatly and makes claiming extremely difficult and frustrating. This is because although the retailer is responsible they never really comply and will just battle us to the end over it. As opposed to be fair I would also have to say that just because an engineer said it was a manufacturing fault that isn’t necessarily proof that it is. He could have been wrong, although it is unlikely that an engineer would say anything like that lightly.
If you have it in writing that they has been a manufacturing fault you would really need to give this evidence to the retailer you bought it from. Clearly the manufacturer is not going to comply and they have no legal obligation to do so as my article describes. It is possible the retailer may be helpful but they usually aren’t unfortunately, especially after such a long time. But if you wanted to pursue it you would really need to get proper help from somewhere like Which? Or Citizens Advice.
1 reply I have a samsung eco bubble 7kg, it was purchased 23rd November 2016 at a cost of £550. The drum and rubber seal seems to have dropped, I phoned Samsung and they were able to tell me that my machine was out of warranty, so they directed me to an appropriate engineer. So the engineer came out to the machine at a call out cost £60, he was at the machine for about 5mins and produced a broken spring.... happy days, machine fixed... he then done a spin test... he then found a 2nd fault, the spindle for the drum was also broken, for this full repair all the parts will cost £200. Where do I stand, surely a machine should last more than 3 years without these kind of faults...
I have a samsung eco bubble 7kg, it was purchased 23rd November 2016 at a cost of £550.
The drum and rubber seal seems to have dropped, I phoned Samsung and they were able to tell me that my machine was out of warranty, so they directed me to an appropriate engineer.
So the engineer came out to the machine at a call out cost £60, he was at the machine for about 5mins and produced a broken spring…. happy days, machine fixed… he then done a spin test… he then found a 2nd fault, the spindle for the drum was also broken, for this full repair all the parts will cost £200.
Where do I stand, surely a machine should last more than 3 years without these kind of faults…
Likely replying to Scott Mcdonald
Hello Scott. I would agree it should last longer. The average life expectancy for a modern washing machine has sadly dropped to only around 7 years with many not lasting as long as that. If Samsung want to retain you as a customer they ought to offer to do something, but manufacturer’s seldom seem to. They have no obligation to do anything once out of their guarantee. If there is any redress in consumer law it would have to be against the retailer. Sadly they are almost guaranteed to be uninterested and wash their hands of it. Whether you have a claim is rarely cut and dry. You could argue that it should have lasted at least twice as long. If they accepted that they would only be likely to offer something like a 50% refund.
My understanding of how the Consumer Rights Act works is that it gives us genuine rights but they are vague and very easy for retailers to ignore. If the retailer refuses to accept your claim that it hasn’t been of sufficient quality or lasted a reasonable time you would have to go to the small claims court or enlist the help of someone like Which? or Citizens Advice. Retailers know that 99% of people won’t.
1 reply I bought Daewoo fridge freezer in july2015. the engineer has been out to it 3 times in last 3 months. it was drumming, fridge wasn't cold enough to stop food going off and freezer full of ice crystals. the engineer has now given me report saying it is non repairable as it needs new insulation. Daewoo is not now based in uk so parts cannot be obtained. have been in touch with curreys who have offered me £256 even though fridge cost £1000 just four years ago. is there anything I can do?
I bought Daewoo fridge freezer in july2015. the engineer has been out to it 3 times in last 3 months. it was drumming, fridge wasn’t cold enough to stop food going off and freezer full of ice crystals. the engineer has now given me report saying it is non repairable as it needs new insulation. Daewoo is not now based in uk so parts cannot be obtained. have been in touch with curreys who have offered me £256 even though fridge cost £1000 just four years ago. is there anything I can do?
Likely replying to Julie Ellis
Hello Julie. A fridge that cost £1000 becoming beyond economical repair after just 4 years is not acceptable. However, the retailer is entitled to knock off an appropriate amount for the use a customer has had from an appliance when refunding money. But £256 seems very low. The way they are likely to work it is to calculate a refund based upon how long it should ideally have lasted. I would say it should have easily lasted 10 years. That would work out at £100 for each year.
So if it’s been used for 4 years you would knock off £400 leaving £600. Even if they insisted it should only have lasted about 7 years, which is pretty poor for a £1000 appliance, that would still work out at around £428.
You should try to argue the figures I quote. If they refuse to change you would need to get help from a consumer group like Which? or Citizens Advice.
1 reply Yes, as I said, your rights are statuary and unrelated to the manufacturer's guarantee. The presence or absence of a manufacturer's guarantee is just a convenience or part of what you pay for. Don't forget, all guarantees are just part of the cost of purchase. No one gives the guarantees for free, they are part of the price. I agree that it shouldn't be possible to sell something as new if they have been repaired. If they are faulty, how did they know they were faulty? That's surely only possible to know after a customer has bought it, had it delivered and used it? If so, then sending it back, selling it to a third party and that party repairing it can't surely be described as new. However, they might argue that technically all parts are new, but any consumer would expect that new means totally new and not pre-owned even if only for one day until sent back as faulty. If the retailer uses the term, "as new", that is very different to the term, "new". If something is described as, "as new" everyone would know that means something a little below brand spanking new. I agree that your main claim under the Consumer Rights act is that you paid over £1000 for an appliance and it has not lasted a reasonable time for what it cost. The other elements regarding salvage and was it new plus the small guarantee are points in your favour but not the main claim. The retailer should be able to knock something off for the amount of time you have had use of the appliance but potentially they should have to give a partial refund or free repair if it's found in your favour.
Yes, as I said, your rights are statuary and unrelated to the manufacturer’s guarantee. The presence or absence of a manufacturer’s guarantee is just a convenience or part of what you pay for. Don’t forget, all guarantees are just part of the cost of purchase. No one gives the guarantees for free, they are part of the price.
I agree that it shouldn’t be possible to sell something as new if they have been repaired. If they are faulty, how did they know they were faulty? That’s surely only possible to know after a customer has bought it, had it delivered and used it? If so, then sending it back, selling it to a third party and that party repairing it can’t surely be described as new.
However, they might argue that technically all parts are new, but any consumer would expect that new means totally new and not pre-owned even if only for one day until sent back as faulty. If the retailer uses the term, “as new”, that is very different to the term, “new”. If something is described as, “as new” everyone would know that means something a little below brand spanking new.
I agree that your main claim under the Consumer Rights act is that you paid over £1000 for an appliance and it has not lasted a reasonable time for what it cost. The other elements regarding salvage and was it new plus the small guarantee are points in your favour but not the main claim. The retailer should be able to knock something off for the amount of time you have had use of the appliance but potentially they should have to give a partial refund or free repair if it’s found in your favour.
1 reply Hi I wonder if you could please help. Our expensive Siemens American style fridge freezer had stopped working on 24 October. It is about 5 years old and I cant find the invoice or remember exactly when we bought it. When I initially called Siemans, they said the earliest they could send an engineer was 5 Dec, so we called an external engineer. He came today (29 Nov), tested it and said it was a faulty compressor which is an expensive part and can't fix it for some time as it is a special part to order, I paid £80 for his call out visit. He said that I should inform Siemens and as it is within 10 years, being the normal warranty for a compressor for most if not all fridge/freezer manufacturers, they should agree to repair it FOC. When I called Siemens, they said that they only offer 10 years compressor warranty on certain models and this isn't one of them. He said if it is under 5 years old, it is covered by their warranty. I told him I can't find the invoice or remember when I bought it, I've called the retailer and their records were manual rather than electronic at that time and they can't find the sale details. After about 30 minutes on the phone to Siemens, the best they could do is send an engineer on 6 Dec, I then pay a £99 call out charge and depending on what the engineer finds, we will then discuss a possible discount off the price of £385 for the compressor. I told Siemens I wasn't happy with this, I paid a premium price for what I thought was a premium brand. I do not expect such a major part to become faulty in a relative short time. No matter which way I tried to discuss it, he wouldn't budge and when I asked to speak to someone else, he said he has spoken to his manager and they will say exactly the same thing. I called the engineer that came this morning and he said I should call Siemens again and quote Trading Standards to them, where the compressor should last for at least 6 years. I've googled it, but can't find that reference. Before I call Siemens again, can you please advise where I stand and what I should say to them. I have taken the last two days off from work, trying to arrange for an engineer to visit to resolve this and it is getting extremely frustrating. Your advice would be much appreciated Thanks
Hi
I wonder if you could please help.
Our expensive Siemens American style fridge freezer had stopped working on 24 October. It is about 5 years old and I cant find the invoice or remember exactly when we bought it. When I initially called Siemans, they said the earliest they could send an engineer was 5 Dec, so we called an external engineer. He came today (29 Nov), tested it and said it was a faulty compressor which is an expensive part and can’t fix it for some time as it is a special part to order, I paid £80 for his call out visit. He said that I should inform Siemens and as it is within 10 years, being the normal warranty for a compressor for most if not all fridge/freezer manufacturers, they should agree to repair it FOC. When I called Siemens, they said that they only offer 10 years compressor warranty on certain models and this isn’t one of them. He said if it is under 5 years old, it is covered by their warranty. I told him I can’t find the invoice or remember when I bought it, I’ve called the retailer and their records were manual rather than electronic at that time and they can’t find the sale details. After about 30 minutes on the phone to Siemens, the best they could do is send an engineer on 6 Dec, I then pay a £99 call out charge and depending on what the engineer finds, we will then discuss a possible discount off the price of £385 for the compressor. I told Siemens I wasn’t happy with this, I paid a premium price for what I thought was a premium brand. I do not expect such a major part to become faulty in a relative short time. No matter which way I tried to discuss it, he wouldn’t budge and when I asked to speak to someone else, he said he has spoken to his manager and they will say exactly the same thing.
I called the engineer that came this morning and he said I should call Siemens again and quote Trading Standards to them, where the compressor should last for at least 6 years. I’ve googled it, but can’t find that reference.
Before I call Siemens again, can you please advise where I stand and what I should say to them. I have taken the last two days off from work, trying to arrange for an engineer to visit to resolve this and it is getting extremely frustrating.
Your advice would be much appreciated
Thanks
Likely replying to Engin Zekia
Hello Engin. I would agree that a compressor shouldn’t fail after 5 years, especially on a very expensive appliance. You may be entitled to either a free repair or a partial refund taking into account how long you’ve had the appliance. But the manufacturer doesn’t have any obligation to do anything once out of their guarantee. All your consumer rights are against the retailer you bought it from.
Unfortunately the lack of an invoice or receipt will cause you big problems. The retailers will always fight a claim like this (as described here Is the sale of goods act too hard on retailers?), but with no receipt you have no chance.
The only hope you have is that Siemens do something out of goodwill & customer relations, or you find a bank or credit card statement that is accepted as proof of purchase. Another option is to ask Siemens to tell you when the fridge freezer was made from its serial number. All appliances have the date of manufacture somehow encoded into serial or product numbers on the rating plate.
1 reply Hello I purchased a Beko electric cooker from Curry's last year in November 2017. On the description on the curry website it never mentioned this automatic feature it has got where it constantly switches on and off from a high temperature to a low-med and vice versa. Cooking on it has been a nightmare everyday and have contact Beko and Curry's on numerous occasions telling them i have been mis-sold this appliance but they won't help. I also had an engineer visit from Beko who said the feature is completely normal and the cooker is fine. Can you help on advising what I should do please? I paid £369.99 and it takes ages to cook on it and nobody believes me. I called Curry's earlier and they put me on hold for almost an hour so they could speak to Beko and go through the engineer report. She came back on the line and hung up. I am so frustrated and angry.
Hello
I purchased a Beko electric cooker from Curry’s last year in November 2017. On the description on the curry website it never mentioned this automatic feature it has got where it constantly switches on and off from a high temperature to a low-med and vice versa. Cooking on it has been a nightmare everyday and have contact Beko and Curry’s on numerous occasions telling them i have been mis-sold this appliance but they won’t help. I also had an engineer visit from Beko who said the feature is completely normal and the cooker is fine. Can you help on advising what I should do please? I paid £369.99 and it takes ages to cook on it and nobody believes me. I called Curry’s earlier and they put me on hold for almost an hour so they could speak to Beko and go through the engineer report. She came back on the line and hung up. I am so frustrated and angry.
Likely replying to Nazya shafi
Hello Nazya. I’m assuming you mean cooking with saucepans on the rings rather than cooking inside the oven? I’m also wondering if you have moved from gas to electric? As far as I’m aware all electric rings work by switching on and off constantly to roughly maintain a temperature. My own hob does the same. Personally I find it a rubbish way of working but they all seem to do it. They just switch on full power, then after a while cut the power off so that things cool down a bit. Then put it back on again. Essentially it’s how most electrical heating works.
It is the same for an electric fire with a thermostat fitted. It will come on full power, then cycle off and on continuously to try and maintain a temperature.
I’ve not heard of one that switches from high to low and medium although I don’t specialise in ovens and cookers. However, I have to admit it does sound like a better way of doing things than just on or off. I don’t understand why cooking would take any longer if the right setting is used?
If the cooker is working perfectly normally and as it is designed to do then you are never going to get anyone to replace it unless the retailer replaced it out of goodwill just because you don’t like it. However, you have to bear in mind it is possible that all possible replacements would work the same and that this is how they work these days. So unless you can identify that this oven works in a totally different way to other ovens there wouldn’t be a lot of point exchanging it for another one.
1 reply Hi, I need help! My Zanussi washer/dryer was included in the sale of my new house from the housing developers, Bellway. It is just under 4 years old and the same part (the fan) has broken 4 times rendering the dryer useless. This year, it has broken down just after its'one-year parts warranty has expired (typical). The company employed by Bellway to carry out any repairs has gone bust and because the part is just out of its warranty, the new company who have taken over want me to pay for a call out and replacement part. Zanussi has told me because the 2-year warranty has expired, I will have to do the same if they come out. My argument is that the same part has broken down 4 times and hence the likely hood of it breaking again is pretty high. How do I stand legally? My first thought is that zanussi should replace the washer dryer as it's quite clearly got a reoccurring fault.
Hi, I need help! My Zanussi washer/dryer was included in the sale of my new house from the housing developers, Bellway. It is just under 4 years old and the same part (the fan) has broken 4 times rendering the dryer useless. This year, it has broken down just after its’one-year parts warranty has expired (typical). The company employed by Bellway to carry out any repairs has gone bust and because the part is just out of its warranty, the new company who have taken over want me to pay for a call out and replacement part. Zanussi has told me because the 2-year warranty has expired, I will have to do the same if they come out. My argument is that the same part has broken down 4 times and hence the likely hood of it breaking again is pretty high. How do I stand legally? My first thought is that zanussi should replace the washer dryer as it’s quite clearly got a reoccurring fault.
Likely replying to Kay King
Hello Kay. If the same part has broken down 4 times and it has not been abused or used excessively then that sounds like a strong argument that the washing machine isn’t fit for purpose and it wasn’t made to a satisfactory standard. Or maybe it has an inherent fault.
Many people have problems with their consumer rights when they have bought appliances through a builder or with their house. The consumer rights act is clear that the responsibility for consumer rights lies with the company that you bought the appliance from.
If this was the same people that sold the house then it is them. Unfortunately these housebuilders tend to be very unhelpful in this area. The company who made the appliance Zanussi has got no responsibility whatsoever although if they wanted to they could make some goodwill gesture (Is manufacturer or retailer responsible for faulty appliances?). Neither has the company who carry out the repairs. If you want to claim compensation or a free repair under the Consumer Rights act (the old sale of goods act) then you have to deal with whoever sold it to you.
If they claim they have no responsibility they are completely wrong. You may well have to get the help and advice of a consumer group like Which? Or a consumer body like Citizens Advice.
1 reply I bought a laptop from Very. Its less than 1 year old and wont turn on. Contacted them and they put me onto supplier who want me tosend back at my cost and if not a manufacturing fault then I will have to pay £37 for it to be returned. I contacted Very and told them its their responsibility to deal with supplier as my contract is with Very the retailer and not Acer. I also have concerns that laptop may get broken going to the supplier and I have been told that will be at my cost also. Who should be dealing with my complaint? So confused as Very don't want to know.
I bought a laptop from Very. Its less than 1 year old and wont turn on. Contacted them and they put me onto supplier who want me tosend back at my cost and if not a manufacturing fault then I will have to pay £37 for it to be returned. I contacted Very and told them its their responsibility to deal with supplier as my contract is with Very the retailer and not Acer. I also have concerns that laptop may get broken going to the supplier and I have been told that will be at my cost also. Who should be dealing with my complaint? So confused as Very don’t want to know.
Likely replying to Lynn
Hello Lynn. It’s normal for retailers to put customers onto the manufacturer. Usually the customer telephones the manufacturer (or their agent) who send out an engineer. But in the case of small appliances they have to make arrangements for them to be returned. It is the manufacturer who is giving the guarantee, and the manufacturer who is carrying out any guarantee work. The retailer has responsibility under the old sale of goods act (which has been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 ), but they don’t have the responsibility to book repairs for us.
Unfortunately, until an engineer has looked at any appliance, neither the retailer or manufacturer will accept it is faulty in a way that is covered by the guarantee. See my article here for 9 examples of “faults” that customers reported which turned out to be not covered by the guarantee Is the washing machine actually faulty?
Although there is likely to be far less likelihood of a laptop having many problems caused by the user or installation, they would still need to check that for example it hasn’t been dropped or misused in any way. So therefore it is normal to be told that it needs to be inspected before they do anything under the guarantee.
Whether you should have to pay upfront or not is a different matter. And one I’m not totally sure about. Normally, manufacturers will send you a returns label once you contact them if you have an appliance that needs returning by post. Many will also have local depots and systems in place so we can drop them off at a local shop or garage.
I recently had a fault on my Tassimo coffee machine. I contacted the manufacturer, described the fault, and they sent me a label by email that I could print out. I just placed the coffee machine inside my original packaging and stuck on the label. I then dropped it off at my local Halfords store who participated in one of the schemes I just mentioned. It was quite easy. They ended up sending me a brand-new one by post.
So if I were you the first thing I would do is contact the manufacturer using the information about the guarantee that came with the purchase and ask what their procedures are. If you don’t have the original packaging then it is up to the consumer to package it inside something appropriate that will protect it. This is the sole reason why I never throw any packaging away.
1 reply I bought a intergrated fridge freezer (hotpoint)from curry's electrical store approx 4 years ago,very little use as I stay myself and work all day,5 year parts but no labour warranty,they wanted to send engineer to see what would be wrong @ £100.+ I declined there offer .seen on line I should have a few years life left in it,I got my own engineer out £20 to look at it and told me that it was not holding the gas and would cost more than the thing was worth,hotpoint not interested ,any thoughts Thanks
I bought a intergrated fridge freezer (hotpoint)from curry’s electrical store approx 4 years ago,very little use as I stay myself and work all day,5 year parts but no labour warranty,they wanted to send engineer to see what would be wrong @ £100.+ I declined there offer .seen on line I should have a few years life left in it,I got my own engineer out £20 to look at it and told me that it was not holding the gas and would cost more than the thing was worth,hotpoint not interested ,any thoughts
Thanks
Likely replying to Gary
Hello Gary. The 5 year parts guarantee that Hotpoint have is in addition to consumer rights. If something very expensive fails it can work out cheaper to pay their £100 Labour. But the vast majority of repairs are likely to work out more expensive. This is how those schemes work. If the engineer you had out is correct then it sounds like there is a leak of the refrigeration gas. If it is beyond economic repair than depending on all of the circumstances you may have a case that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time.
If you had Hotpoint out under their 5 year parts guarantee they may fix it for the £100, in which case it’s better than the independent engineer could do. Or they may tell you that it is indeed beyond economic repair not covered under their 5 year parts warranty. In this case they may offer you a new appliance at a reduced price. You would have to do check with them to find out exactly what would happen if they did come out and tell you that they could not repair it. And then decide if that is the viable option for you.
If it was very expensive, it might be worth pursuing as a consumer complaint, but you would have to threaten to take them to the Small Claims Court (no guarantee of winning) all enlist the help of a consumer group. If it was only £200 – £300 it may be a little harder. I would say a fridge appliance should last around 10 years. This is what we have come to expect. However appliance longevity has been slowly reducing for many years alongside of prices. The manufacturer may claim that the average life expectancy is say only 7 years now. Even so, you might argue that for years is still way too short.
The way these things work though is that
1 reply i purchased a washer from currys 2 years ago and it is not rinsing clothes out and making lot of noise sounds like its on its way out, but only got guarantee for 1 year,
i purchased a washer from currys 2 years ago and it is not rinsing clothes out and making lot of noise sounds like its on its way out, but only got guarantee for 1 year,
Likely replying to lisa
Hello Lisa. This article describes how the guarantee is irrelevant apart from the fact that if it was still under it things would be easier. Out of guarantee even by a long time doesn’t always mean you should pay
It may be that there’s something stuck in the pump preventing it from pumping the water out properly in which case it wouldn’t be covered. But if it’s developed a fault, it depends on how much it cost, how much it’s been used, and how expensive/serious the fault is as to whether you have a case for a free repair under the sale of goods act. Therefore you can’t really know what to do until you find out what’s gone wrong.
1 reply I would think a Samsung TV should last longer than 3 years but it depends on what fault has occurred as to whether it's something worth pursuing. If for example it can be fixed for a reasonable amount it might not be considered too out of the ordinary for a product to need a repair. But if it's a serious fault which is very costly to fix, or even not worth repairing you can argue (with the retailer) that it hasn't lasted a reasonable time. Sadly it's unrealistic to expect modern TVs to last 15 years but they ought to last at least half that. Another angle could be if you find it's a very common problem, which might indicate it is a design fault or "inherent" fault, which would mean it was faulty when sold and entitle you to compensation (usually a free repair).
I would think a Samsung TV should last longer than 3 years but it depends on what fault has occurred as to whether it’s something worth pursuing. If for example it can be fixed for a reasonable amount it might not be considered too out of the ordinary for a product to need a repair. But if it’s a serious fault which is very costly to fix, or even not worth repairing you can argue (with the retailer) that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time.
Sadly it’s unrealistic to expect modern TVs to last 15 years but they ought to last at least half that. Another angle could be if you find it’s a very common problem, which might indicate it is a design fault or “inherent” fault, which would mean it was faulty when sold and entitle you to compensation (usually a free repair).
1 reply Could I ask some advice please? I bought a range cooker from curry's in October 2010, Though it wasn't delivered until the following Jan. To light the hob, you need to press and hold the knob for 15 seconds. Upon release some rings on longer stay lit, but go out. Another will light, but will go out during use. Out of 7 rings I have 3 that regularly work. I contacted the manufacturer, and they say I need to pay for them to look at it. I understand it is out of warranty, but I expected my brand new cooker to last longer than 2.5 years. Do I have any rights?
Could I ask some advice please? I bought a range cooker from curry’s in October 2010, Though it wasn’t delivered until the following Jan. To light the hob, you need to press and hold the knob for 15 seconds. Upon release some rings on longer stay lit, but go out. Another will light, but will go out during use. Out of 7 rings I have 3 that regularly work. I contacted the manufacturer, and they say I need to pay for them to look at it. I understand it is out of warranty, but I expected my brand new cooker to last longer than 2.5 years. Do I have any rights?
Likely replying to Jackie jimenez
Hello Jackie. It’s going to depend on what’s gone wrong exactly, and whether it’s serious or not. The Sale of Goods Act says a product should be fit for purpose, be free from inherent faults, and last a reasonable time. It doesn’t say nothing should break down though so if it’s not a serious fault it may be deemed acceptable. If on the other hand it’s a very expensive repair, you might argue that’s unacceptable if you paid a lot for it because a high quality appliance should be — high quality. This would be especially true if for any reason the appliance was so expensive to repair it wasn’t worth doing (which happens a lot these days). So unfortunately, it’s catch 22 because until they tell you what is wrong, and how much it will cost you can’t decide what to do.
1 reply Hi was looking for some advice on where you think our legal responsibility would lie in the following case:- we are a small construction company who fitted a kitchen for a customer last year. We also supplied and fitted appliances at trade prices. The phillips washing machine broke down about 4 weeks ago and as expected phillips whirlpool sent an engineer out to repair under warrranty. However an altercation took place at the property between the engineer and the customer and the engineer left before fixing the machine. Now phillips whirlpool are refusing to send another engineer and voiding the warranty so the customer wants us to pay for the repair or a new machine? Any advice on this one? Mrs M
Hi was looking for some advice on where you think our legal responsibility would lie in the following case:- we are a small construction company who fitted a kitchen for a customer last year. We also supplied and fitted appliances at trade prices. The phillips washing machine broke down about 4 weeks ago and as expected phillips whirlpool sent an engineer out to repair under warrranty. However an altercation took place at the property between the engineer and the customer and the engineer left before fixing the machine. Now phillips whirlpool are refusing to send another engineer and voiding the warranty so the customer wants us to pay for the repair or a new machine? Any advice on this one?
Mrs M
Likely replying to Anonymous
Hello Anonymous. It sounds risky supplying appliances at trade prices because as the seller you have the Sale of Goods Act to worry about, which can put a lot of burden on the seller. Things can come back to bite you for up to 6 years as described in my article. It may be possible to limit a buyer’s rights if selling at trade prices, but you’d have to take legal advice on that because the customer is not trade. So to have made little or no profit and end up with hassle and expense would really sting. Having said that you may look at the bigger picture and decide there is enough profit in the overall job.
Regarding this current situation I would say the manufacturer is legally obliged to repair the machine under their warranty if the fault is covered by it, but if they’ve been abused they may be within their rights to refuse to deal with them.
Under The Sale of Goods Act, because it’s failed within less than 6 months the appliance is said to have been faulty when sold unless you can prove otherwise – which you can’t do without an engineer.
Technically the customer can claim it was sold with an inherent fault and demand a replacement. If you can show they’ve mistreated or misused it, maybe they’ve left something in a pocket and blocked the pump etc. then it’s their responsibility. If you can show that it’s unreasonable to have to replace it because it’s only a minor fault, and replacing it would be disproportionately expensive you can insist they accept a repair, but without anyone to do it you are back to square one.
It’s a very unusual case, and one you need to seek advice on from Trading Standards. I have send an email to a contact I have at Trading Standards, and if he’s still there I will report back if he replies.
1 reply Hello What an interesting site.I found you looking for help ,trying to find a new element for my Whirlpool tumble dryer modle no C3RLEQ8033 (part of the American range).My machine is less than two years old and i am told the part is osolete. The rest of the machine is like new and is well worth repairing. what in your experiance is the best course of action
Hello What an interesting site.I found you looking for help ,trying to find a new element for my Whirlpool tumble dryer modle no C3RLEQ8033 (part of the American range).My machine is less than two years old and i am told the part is osolete. The rest of the machine is like new and is well worth repairing. what in your experiance is the best course of action
Likely replying to harry Mitchell
Thanks harry. The first thing I would do is try to make sure this part really is obsolete by ringing the authorised repairer (if that’s what you already did then fair enough). If parts are genuinely obsolete, meaning you can’t get it repaired, I would say this equates to it not lasting a reasonable time. Manufacturers have an obligation to make spare parts available for a reasonable time, they can’t sell large household appliances which can’t be repaired. It used to be 10 years but they’ve negotiated it down to something like 7 as they have started to last for less time.
However, under the Sale of Goods Act, it is only the retailer who is responsible, so you would need to complain to them that they sold you an appliance, which has only lasted 2 years. They should then make enquiries to see if the parts really are unavailable and if they are I don’t see how they can say that’s reasonable. If they’ve any sense they would refuse to sell such products in the future. Please let us know how you get on as sharing our experiences, whether successful or not is very valuable.
1 reply hi i bought a hotpoint builtin oven 14 months ago never took out extended warranty was cooking chicken nuggets for grandchildren oven was on medium did not want them to brown i bent down to look through the door then i opened it there was an explosion the outer glass shot across the kitchen what a shock glad the children were in the other room i phis this rightoned hot point they said they cant replace oven as i did not hve extended warrenty but they will sell me another
hi i bought a hotpoint builtin oven 14 months ago never took out extended warranty was cooking chicken nuggets for grandchildren oven was on medium did not want them to brown i bent down to look through the door then i opened it there was an explosion the outer glass shot across the kitchen what a shock glad the children were in the other room i phis this rightoned hot point they said they cant replace oven as i did not hve extended warrenty but they will sell me another
Hello Jean: It seems that many different appliances are suffering from this problem. I have an article related to washing machine door glass explosions but oven doors have been shattering for many years.
Most reasonable people would say it’s totally unacceptable for the glass on any appliance to spontaneously explode or shatter. Unfortunately it seems to be viewed as perfectly normal and acceptable within the white goods industry. If you have only ever used it within the guidelines of the manufacturer’s instruction book you may have a justified complaint under the sale of goods act citing a design fault or inherent fault at time of purchase.
You need to find out what Hotpoint claim is the cause of the door glass shattering, and take it from there. However, remember that Hotpoint are not bound by the sale of goods responsibilities – only the retailer you bought it from. Please keep us informed of progress or outcome.
1 reply Jon: I would expect it would depend on whether the fault should have been obvious or not, and whether it should have been expected to cause issues. Having said that, we are allowed up to 5 or 6 years after purchasing to make a claim.
Jon: I would expect it would depend on whether the fault should have been obvious or not, and whether it should have been expected to cause issues. Having said that, we are allowed up to 5 or 6 years after purchasing to make a claim.
Likely replying to Washerhelp
Hi Washerhelp
The fault are some scratches across the top of a laptop. I saw them when I first unpacked the laptop but it was wrapped in that protective film and scratches was the least of my expectations; I honestly thought at the time that they were glue residue from the protective film. The scratches are so hard to identify as the plastic was of a glossy finish and you need to be very close up and tilt the laptop to catch the light to see them. Besides, looking for scratches was not one of the many piorities when buying a laptop I also need to make sure it is charge properly, test that my programmes worked on it and that the wifi/internet connection worked, etc..
It was only at a later date (only two weeks or so) when someone else who was admiring my laptop actually pointed out that they were scratches. I am so disappointed that I forked out an arm and a leg for a premium laptop only to discover such blemishes on them.
1 reply Dear washer-help, we purchased a BOSCH FRIDGE FREEZER/ american style on Jan 2009 for £1079.00 + £20 Del charge. the freezer is leaking water onto the floor, ice forming on floor of freezer and fridge running warm and ice maker not working. We have an engineer from Bosch due today, £89.99 call out plus parts. My intention is to get a report and cost and claim from the retailer ( Appliance City) under the 6 year sales of goods act etc. I spoke to appliance city this morning and explained my intention of which he quoted the standard Bosch 2 yr manufacturers warranty. Until i get an engineers report etc i will be in touch with appliance city for refund of any monies laid out . Will keep you informed.
Dear washer-help, we purchased a BOSCH FRIDGE FREEZER/ american style on Jan 2009 for £1079.00 + £20 Del charge. the freezer is leaking water onto the floor, ice forming on floor of freezer and fridge running warm and ice maker not working.
We have an engineer from Bosch due today, £89.99 call out plus parts.
My intention is to get a report and cost and claim from the retailer ( Appliance City) under the 6 year sales of goods act etc.
I spoke to appliance city this morning and explained my intention of which he quoted the standard Bosch 2 yr manufacturers warranty. Until i get an engineers report etc i will be in touch with appliance city for refund of any monies laid out . Will keep you informed.
Likely replying to Alan
Hi Alan: Just over £1000 is a lot of money for an appliance so you should rightly expect much of it but what to do depends mostly on what the fault is rather than the fact that it’s not working properly. Sometimes that symptom is caused by the hole at the back of the fridge wall getting clogged. This would prevent the defrosted water running down the back wall from getting out to the back of the appliance where it should run into the evaporator tray on top of the compressor.
If this hole gets blocked the water runs into the base of the appliance instead. If this turns out to be the issue you may not have a legitimate claim under the sale of goods act. On the other hand if it turns out to be an expensive issue then you might argue that an appliance costing over £1000 should not need expensive repairs so soon. Please do let us know how you get on.
1 reply 1. Re: Mr B's success in Small Claims Court when Barratts refused to replace/repair a defective appliance, I read an article not all that long ago (regret no longer can recall exactly where) It was by a successful Claimant who then found that the amount awarded to him did not get paid, and there was nothing - short of going to court again and/or instructing Bailiffs (??) he could do about it. That is why I tentatively suggested that Mr B might ask the Small Claims Court about procedures should he have a similar bad experience. Of course, in an ideal world, Barratts' cheque would by now have arrived, been paid in, and met. But unfortunately this ain't no ideal world!. 2. Sending defective appliances back to manufacturers: at whose expense, there and back? Could this be another defensive tactic designed solely to deter the Purchaser? (My replacement half-price fridge is a Beko, this being a Turkish manufacturer: presumably it costs infinitely more than the damn thing is worth to even attempt such a thing! 3. A couple of months ago several house fires were reported, all of them caused by defective Beko fridge/freezers (manufactured about ten years ago). What are the purchasers'rights in such a case? - Food of a long debate here. Would anyone like a copy of the press cuttings? 4. This is posted at Andy's suggestion
1. Re: Mr B’s success in Small Claims Court when Barratts refused to replace/repair a defective appliance,
I read an article not all that long ago (regret no longer can recall exactly where)
It was by a successful Claimant who then found that the amount awarded to him did not get paid, and there was nothing – short of going to court again and/or instructing Bailiffs (??) he could do about it.
That is why I tentatively suggested that Mr B might ask the Small Claims Court about procedures should he have a similar bad experience.
Of course, in an ideal world, Barratts’ cheque would by now have arrived, been paid in, and met.
But unfortunately this ain’t no ideal world!.
2. Sending defective appliances back to manufacturers: at whose expense, there and back? Could this be another defensive tactic designed solely to deter the Purchaser? (My replacement half-price fridge is a Beko, this being a Turkish manufacturer: presumably it costs infinitely more than the damn thing is worth to even attempt such a thing!
3. A couple of months ago several house fires were reported, all of them caused by defective Beko fridge/freezers (manufactured about ten years ago). What are the purchasers’rights in such a case? –
Food of a long debate here. Would anyone like a copy of the press cuttings?
4. This is posted at Andy’s suggestion
1 reply Many thanks for the update Mr Dobalina. That sounds like very good news, and confirms what I've always said, that drum bearing failure, which cannot be repaired without having to replace major parts rendering a two and a half year old washing machine beyond economical repair is totally unacceptable. Your supplier trying to fob you off claiming that the sale of goods act does not require products to last 6 years was typical muddying of waters. Of course it doesn't require products to last "6 years", it requires that they last a reasonable time, and two and a half years is not a reasonable time unless you have been taking washing in for the entire street.
Many thanks for the update Mr Dobalina. That sounds like very good news, and confirms what I’ve always said, that drum bearing failure, which cannot be repaired without having to replace major parts rendering a two and a half year old washing machine beyond economical repair is totally unacceptable.
Your supplier trying to fob you off claiming that the sale of goods act does not require products to last 6 years was typical muddying of waters. Of course it doesn’t require products to last “6 years”, it requires that they last a reasonable time, and two and a half years is not a reasonable time unless you have been taking washing in for the entire street.
Likely replying to Washerhelp
Washerhelp,
Ive only just noticed your September update about suppliers paying up now or later and there being no difference.
In my case I reckon Barratts has simply tripled or may have even quadrupled their costs by arguing this one for so long…and this may be the same for retailers who fight a case all the way to the courts.
If Barratts had said right back at the start that they would cover the cost of the part and us the cost of the installation then we probably would have been agreeable to that. That would have probably set them back £150, maybe £200 at the very most.
Instead, what they have done is not only paid for the entire cost of the replacement washing machine, but they have picked up all of my costs (over double the cost of the washing machine) AND incurred countless hours of lost productivity from at least 6 staff (from customer services front desk staff right up to the Head of Legal Services). So in the end they have probably forked out over £1000 in fighting this!
Not only that BUT our neighbours are now going to contact Barratts to sort their washing machine out (exact same make and model as hours) as well as another resident in our street and once I get our money Ill make contact with the local news paper to see if they are interested in a local interest story.
Finally, maybe you and I could incorporate the Provision of Goods and Services act in to this page as we now there is some experience of bringing action under this act against someone who has provided the goods to an end user?
Regards
Bob
1 reply This has been very helpful. I have a Servis washer/dryer bought in July 2007 and the dryer's mucking about and not working properly right now. I'm going to get a guy out to tell me how much it will cost me to get it fixed but I'm dreading it being loadsa' money as it cost me £329 then. If it turns out to be a large quote would you advise I go back to the seller-an online site ? Many Thanks for any help. Lynda~
This has been very helpful. I have a Servis washer/dryer bought in July 2007 and the dryer’s mucking about and not working properly right now. I’m going to get a guy out to tell me how much it will cost me to get it fixed but I’m dreading it being loadsa’ money as it cost me £329 then.
If it turns out to be a large quote would you advise I go back to the seller-an online site ?
Many Thanks for any help.
Lynda~
Likely replying to Lynda
Hello Lynda: If a washing machine breaks down after about 3 and a half years it’s not necessarily an issue that you could get compensation for. The Sale of goods act doesn’t say products should not break down within the first 5 or 6 years, only that they should last a reasonable time and be fit for the purpose.
Occasional breakdowns of a highly mechanical appliance are par for the course so it would depend entirely on what had gone wrong and if it was related in any way to “fair wear and tear” although this would depend on the type of use it’s had.
I would say if a major fault has occurred that makes the washing machine unrepairable (or beyond economical repair) then you should have a case for claiming it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time. In such case you would need to claim against the retailer.
1 reply Have read the exchange with interest and feel a lot more confident about my consumer rights. I have a £700.00 Whirlpool washing machine which screams like a banshee on spin - something is on its way out after only 15 months use, I am ready to tackle the Retailer but guess what - neither Whirlpool who supplied it nor Domestic and General who I paid for it will own up to being the Retailer - so just wondering if anyone got similar issue/solution
Have read the exchange with interest and feel a lot more confident about my consumer rights. I have a £700.00 Whirlpool washing machine which screams like a banshee on spin – something is on its way out after only 15 months use, I am ready to tackle the Retailer but guess what – neither Whirlpool who supplied it nor Domestic and General who I paid for it will own up to being the Retailer – so just wondering if anyone got similar issue/solution
Likely replying to Paul Turpin
Hello Paul: That’s a lot of money for a Whirlpool. They are supposed to be a budget brand in the UK.
I’m assuming your situation is that your new machine was supplied to replace a previous one that was beyond economical repair and covered under Domestic & General’s insurance policy? I would assume whoever supplied it, and received your money is the one you have the contract with. It’s less clear than a normal purchase but someone must have sold it to you. Please let us know how you get on with this.
1 reply hi i purchased a slimline dishwasher in March 2008 from an online store, i had it fitted by a corgi regisyered gas fitter/plumber. i live alone so it is only used every 2/3 days, last week it kept switching itself off a few minutes after starting, and i had to unplug it and wait to restart it, but still same. i have had a plumber/ white goods engineer out today who says the pump need replacing, it has been leaking,maybe since fitted, as inside of area has lots of rust, says he will get price on pump, but maybe over £100, then it still may need new circuit board, but will not be able to tell until fitted new pump. i have contacted the retailer who says all appliances sold are brand new and carry 12 month warranty. i live on the isle of wight and paid £45 for delivery, so do not think the retailer will have engineer to call here. do i contact Belling, or the retailer to sort this out?
hi i purchased a slimline dishwasher in March 2008 from an online store, i had it fitted by a corgi regisyered gas fitter/plumber. i live alone so it is only used every 2/3 days, last week it kept switching itself off a few minutes after starting, and i had to unplug it and wait to restart it, but still same. i have had a plumber/ white goods engineer out today who says the pump need replacing, it has been leaking,maybe since fitted, as inside of area has lots of rust, says he will get price on pump, but maybe over £100, then it still may need new circuit board, but will not be able to tell until fitted new pump. i have contacted the retailer who says all appliances sold are brand new and carry 12 month warranty. i live on the isle of wight and paid £45 for delivery, so do not think the retailer will have engineer to call here. do i contact Belling, or the retailer to sort this out?
Likely replying to linda
Linda,
I think a very good response has been posted to your query, as pointed out the retailer is obliged under law to help in these circumstances and getting your problem fixed. Have you got any updates for us, always interested to know what has been said and what further action is been taken to rectify the situation for you.
Sincerely,
Joe
1 reply Thanks for your help on this issue. I fear this will continue to be a sticking point within the industry. I have an example of a problem our company faced 6 months ago. One of our customers bought a creda freestanding cooker from us 3 1/2 years ago. when she contacted us 6 months ago she told us that rust marks were appearing around one of the hob hotplates. She had contacted Creda to get the machine exchanged. As expected Creda point blank refused stating the machine was out of its warranty period. The customer then got back to us asking for us to remove the damaged appliance and provide her with a replacement free of charge, which as reputable dealer we gladly did at our own expense. We tried to get Creda to take the appliance back from us for credit and surprise surprise they point blank refused to help us aswell. Now i could take this matter further and try and take creda to court but frankly is it really worth all the time and effort to do so.We are now left with a 3 1/2 year old appliance which cannot be sent back being left to gather rust and dust in our warehouse. My point here is that if creda are supplying us with a machine that has gone rusty within a 3 1/2 year period of time why does the small retalier have to bear the complete loss on supplying the replacement appliance to the customer. Surely Creda or any other manufacturer that makes appliances must hold some responsabilty for the products they supply and should help the retailer if the applinace becomes faulty within a reasonable period of time. Small retailers cannot bear this loss alone and will need help from the manufacturers. Until the manufacturers are forced to take responsabilty for the long term quality of the products they make i fear small retailers will the ones who lose out the most while the people who make these machines get away scott free.
Thanks for your help on this issue. I fear this will continue to be a sticking point within the industry. I have an example of a problem our company faced 6 months ago.
One of our customers bought a creda freestanding cooker from us 3 1/2 years ago. when she contacted us 6 months ago she told us that rust marks were appearing around one of the hob hotplates. She had contacted Creda to get the machine exchanged. As expected Creda point blank refused stating the machine was out of its warranty period. The customer then got back to us asking for us to remove the damaged appliance and provide her with a replacement free of charge, which as reputable dealer we gladly did at our own expense. We tried to get Creda to take the appliance back from us for credit and surprise surprise they point blank refused to help us aswell. Now i could take this matter further and try and take creda to court but frankly is it really worth all the time and effort to do so.We are now left with a 3 1/2 year old appliance which cannot be sent back being left to gather rust and dust in our warehouse.
My point here is that if creda are supplying us with a machine that has gone rusty within a 3 1/2 year period of time why does the small retalier have to bear the complete loss on supplying the replacement appliance to the customer. Surely Creda or any other manufacturer that makes appliances must hold some responsabilty for the products they supply and should help the retailer if the applinace becomes faulty within a reasonable period of time. Small retailers cannot bear this loss alone and will need help from the manufacturers. Until the manufacturers are forced to take responsabilty for the long term quality of the products they make i fear small retailers will the ones who lose out the most while the people who make these machines get away scott free.
Likely replying to nick
Hello Nick: It sounds like your company is reputable and defends its reputation even at cost to itself. Your customer was very lucky to get the cooker exchanged, which wouldn’t have happened with a larger retailer I’m sure. After using it for 3 and a half years, if she was entitled to a refund it would be a refund minus the value of 3 and a half years use. This would have to be worked out by trying to find the average life expectancy of the product.
A retailer isn’t obliged to replace the product unless it’s unrepairable, only to repair it or offer a refund minus the appropriate amount for the use the customer has had from it, or to offer some amount of compensation if still usable and they accept compensation instead. It all depends on the exact circumstances.
Your example highlights a major flaw in the Sales of Goods Act, which is that it gives rights to a consumer to be borne by the retailer but gives no rights to the retailer who is not responsible for the quality of the product. It’s one of the reasons I got out of selling finished goods and cannot imagine ever selling them again because of the unfair burden on retailers – particularly small ones. Having said that though, the retailer is responsible for choosing to profit from selling the goods they sell, and so one argument is that this is why they are fair game. If a retailer profits from selling rubbish then they get what they deserve don’t they? In practice though this is a simplistic view as most of the problems are caused by products not being so rubbish that no one will sell them, but being of just the right sub-standard quality to make them viable – as long as customers and retailers bear the main consequences of the lack of quality – instead of the manufacturers.
A small retailer should have exactly the same rights as a consumer regarding the quality of products but they don’t. In theory the customer demands recompense from the retailer and in turn the retailer, who is only a customer of the manufacturer, demands recompense from the manufacturer. That way everything gets sorted. The problem is that only the end consumer can quote the Sales of Goods Act, which (as far as I’m aware) does not apply to the retailer who can quote nothing.
National retailers have great clout, they don’t need to quote anything, just threaten to stop stocking their product. The manufacturers often dance to their tune and believe me the major retailers do have power over the manufacturers.
The middle and lower retailers though have little or no clout and can’t make demands. The most they can do is stop retailing a product but as they are so small it’s as a flea bite to an elephant. Small retailers are often just grateful a manufacturer even allows them to sell their products, or are so small they can only buy through third party wholesalers where their power is just as weak.
Small to medium sized retailers have no obvious rights and have no influence over giant manufacturers. The most they can threaten is to stop retailing a brand which they usually don’t want to do so they end up bearing the costs and the hassle themselves. The only people I can think of that could be a help to small retailers in this situation are the Federation of Small Businesses who have a legal helpline as part of the benefits of (paid) membership.
I’ve just added a new paragraph to my original article entitled “Fair Wear and Tear clause” which you may find interesting. The quote is from the The Law Relating to the Supply of Goods and Services – A TRADER’S GUIDE (pdf) which offers a vital insight to a retailers responsibilities as advised to them by the Department of Trade & Industry.
0 replies COMMENTS NOW CLOSED This article is now closed to new comments. The comprehensive article and the 256 comments it contains cover just about every scenario you can think of. Ironically, the length of the article and the sheer amount of comments is probably putting off many people from reading, and causing them to just add their question instead. If you have an issue, I strongly recommend that you put some time aside to carefully read all the article, and then read through the comments. It's very likely you will work out what the answer is from them.
COMMENTS NOW CLOSED
This article is now closed to new comments. The comprehensive article and the 256 comments it contains cover just about every scenario you can think of. Ironically, the length of the article and the sheer amount of comments is probably putting off many people from reading, and causing them to just add their question instead.
If you have an issue, I strongly recommend that you put some time aside to carefully read all the article, and then read through the comments. It’s very likely you will work out what the answer is from them.
0 replies Hello I purchased a dishwasher 10/01/20. If arrived faulty and they replaced it on 22/01/20. After about 21 months, the control panel stopped working, the retailer sent out an engineer and they replaced the control panel, within 6 weeks this control panel stopped working. I was told my machine is now 2 years old and out of warranty, and there is no warranty on replacement parts. I carried on using the machine and on the 22/01/23 the dishwasher had an electric fire from the fault control panel. The retailer has no interest in the machine and has fobbed me off every time. I have a report from an appliance engineer stating the control panel has wrapped and this is down to poor build quality. The retailer said they couldn’t do anything unless I had this. They have offered a partial refund to me of £119. They won’t reimburse me the £75 report to prove the machine is faulty. The machine cost me £239 after paying over 24 months it has cost me £292 I had ask for a replacement machine and a refund on the engineer’s report. This machine could have burnt our home down. Only being offer £119, is this fair? I am out of pocket already for £75 , I’m only really getting £44 Thanks Jenny
Hello
I purchased a dishwasher 10/01/20. If arrived faulty and they replaced it on 22/01/20. After about 21 months, the control panel stopped working, the retailer sent out an engineer and they replaced the control panel, within 6 weeks this control panel stopped working. I was told my machine is now 2 years old and out of warranty, and there is no warranty on replacement parts.
I carried on using the machine and on the 22/01/23 the dishwasher had an electric fire from the fault control panel.
The retailer has no interest in the machine and has fobbed me off every time.
I have a report from an appliance engineer stating the control panel has wrapped and this is down to poor build quality. The retailer said they couldn’t do anything unless I had this.
They have offered a partial refund to me of £119.
They won’t reimburse me the £75 report to prove the machine is faulty.
The machine cost me £239 after paying over 24 months it has cost me £292
I had ask for a replacement machine and a refund on the engineer’s report.
This machine could have burnt our home down.
Only being offer £119, is this fair? I am out of pocket already for £75 , I’m only really getting £44
Thanks
Jenny
0 replies I wish I’d come across this site earlier. I had a Kenwood American fridge freezer bought from Currys 3 years ago which stopped working recently defrosting a whole load of food. I contacted several local appliance repair companies who all said the don’t repair fridge freezers. Being outside the 12 month warranty I didn’t bother contacting Currys and went ahead and bought a replacement as could not manage without a fridge. I have since seen lots of posts on a review site where the Kenwood fridge freezer appears to be renowned for unreliability and break downs which suggests the manufacture is not fit for purpose. The old one was taken away so now have no evidence to take any further action. Lesson learned- I will know better if faced with similar problem in the future. Thankyou for this helpful site.
I wish I’d come across this site earlier.
I had a Kenwood American fridge freezer bought from Currys 3 years ago which stopped working recently defrosting a whole load of food.
I contacted several local appliance repair companies who all said the don’t repair fridge freezers. Being outside the 12 month warranty I didn’t bother contacting Currys and went ahead and bought a replacement as could not manage without a fridge.
I have since seen lots of posts on a review site where the Kenwood fridge freezer appears to be renowned for unreliability and break downs which suggests the manufacture is not fit for purpose. The old one was taken away so now have no evidence to take any further action.
Lesson learned- I will know better if faced with similar problem in the future.
Thankyou for this helpful site.
0 replies Just wondering if anyone has had any success in getting washing machine porthole doors replaced by the manufacturer after 'spontaneous' cracking/breaking? My machine is a mid-range Bosch. 5 years old. Only one person to wash for and not 'abused' in any way.
Just wondering if anyone has had any success in getting washing machine porthole doors replaced by the manufacturer after ‘spontaneous’ cracking/breaking? My machine is a mid-range Bosch. 5 years old. Only one person to wash for and not ‘abused’ in any way.
0 replies Not sure Andy. I have some useful links on my article here though to Citizens Advice on the subject of Small Claims Court
Not sure Andy. I have some useful links on my article here though to Citizens Advice on the subject of Small Claims Court
0 replies The last option doesn't prove when you bought an appliance. But if it came back that it was made 5 years ago then it couldn't have been longer than 5 years since you bought it. So that can help your case as you can say you must have bought it less than 5 years ago. But if it came back that it was made over 5 years ago it wouldn't help your case. It wouldn't prove that you've had it more than 5 years, but without a receipt you couldn't prove you hadn't. You would still need proof of purchase to establish when you bought it.
The last option doesn’t prove when you bought an appliance. But if it came back that it was made 5 years ago then it couldn’t have been longer than 5 years since you bought it. So that can help your case as you can say you must have bought it less than 5 years ago. But if it came back that it was made over 5 years ago it wouldn’t help your case. It wouldn’t prove that you’ve had it more than 5 years, but without a receipt you couldn’t prove you hadn’t. You would still need proof of purchase to establish when you bought it.
0 replies Hi I bought second hand fridge/freezer with 9 month warranty july 2014,a week ago heard the motor making a loud noise to which freezer was working but not the fridge. I contacted the company same day and next and next and next,to which i was told it would be sorted,i then asked "when" to which the worker i spoke to(not the manager)that they could not sort it with click of my fingers,to then i said i have had to throw food out,he replied to claim on house insurance,He said it will be sorted tomorrow as manager had to go to funeral.There has been no remorse or the right customer care at all.I was thinking if not sorted to contact trading standards as this should not happen.
Hi I bought second hand fridge/freezer with 9 month warranty july 2014,a week ago heard the motor making a loud noise to which freezer was working but not the fridge.
I contacted the company same day and next and next and next,to which i was told it would be sorted,i then asked “when” to which the worker i spoke to(not the manager)that they could not sort it with click of my fingers,to then i said i have had to throw food out,he replied to claim on house insurance,He said it will be sorted tomorrow as manager had to go to funeral.There has been no remorse or the right customer care at all.I was thinking if not sorted to contact trading standards as this should not happen.
0 replies Hi StevieSi: It would fall under the inherent fault rule. Right up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) we can claim compensation for an inherent fault so it sounds like it should be fairly easy to show that the fault was present when sold and therefore you'd be entitled to a free repair. However, in reality, unless the manufacturer agrees to this the retailer will almost certainly refuse to help and say, "sorry, but it's out of guarantee there's nothing we can do", which would be wrong (as shown here - Out of guarantee even by a long time doesn’t always mean you should pay). I have recently written a new article exploring the reasons why we have so much trouble with retailers and here are my thoughts - Is the sale of goods act too hard on retailers?
Hi StevieSi: It would fall under the inherent fault rule. Right up to 6 years (5 in Scotland) we can claim compensation for an inherent fault so it sounds like it should be fairly easy to show that the fault was present when sold and therefore you’d be entitled to a free repair. However, in reality, unless the manufacturer agrees to this the retailer will almost certainly refuse to help and say, “sorry, but it’s out of guarantee there’s nothing we can do”, which would be wrong (as shown here – Out of guarantee even by a long time doesn’t always mean you should pay).
I have recently written a new article exploring the reasons why we have so much trouble with retailers and here are my thoughts – Is the sale of goods act too hard on retailers?
0 replies What is your position on the Capacitor Plague issue? i.e. sub-standard electrolytic capacitors on a PCB that fails within 1-4 years. Two cases I personally have suffered from this with: D-Link ADSL router (2nd one bought after 1st one failed and had same problem after 1 yr!) Samsung 932GW PC monitor - backlight failed after 3 yrs Both of these were easily diagnosed by me (PC engineer) as capacitor issues (bulging capacitors are easy to spot!) and fixed by replacing the capacitors. The point is, these did not last a reasonable time and had a defect at the time of manufacture. You just need to Google for 'xxx Capacitor Repair Kit' to find people selling sets of replacement capacitors for these EXACT models! So it is easily proven that they were built with defective capacitors and the world knows about it. The annoying thing about all this is that the 'bad capacitor plague' was known about since around 2005 and yet equipment is still being built today with these poor quality capacitors in them because they are cheaper and generally last for just over 2 years so the manufacturer couldn't care less! Something needs to be done to stop the manufacturers from using these sub-standard components (i.e penalise the manufacturer and not the retailer). Also, retailers need to be aware of this capacitor plague issue and made to demand from the manufacturers that the capacitors are of decent quality. Many PC parts suppliers proudly boast that their products contain 'Japanese capacitors' - PC consumers (now wiser, having been bitten several times) value this and are prepared to pay more. It is the poor old non-expert consumer and uninformed retailer who are still suffering 10 years later!
What is your position on the Capacitor Plague issue?
i.e. sub-standard electrolytic capacitors on a PCB that fails within 1-4 years. Two cases I personally have suffered from this with:
D-Link ADSL router (2nd one bought after 1st one failed and had same problem after 1 yr!)
Samsung 932GW PC monitor – backlight failed after 3 yrs
Both of these were easily diagnosed by me (PC engineer) as capacitor issues (bulging capacitors are easy to spot!) and fixed by replacing the capacitors.
The point is, these did not last a reasonable time and had a defect at the time of manufacture.
You just need to Google for ‘xxx Capacitor Repair Kit’ to find people selling sets of replacement capacitors for these EXACT models! So it is easily proven that they were built with defective capacitors and the world knows about it.
The annoying thing about all this is that the ‘bad capacitor plague’ was known about since around 2005 and yet equipment is still being built today with these poor quality capacitors in them because they are cheaper and generally last for just over 2 years so the manufacturer couldn’t care less!
Something needs to be done to stop the manufacturers from using these sub-standard components (i.e penalise the manufacturer and not the retailer). Also, retailers need to be aware of this capacitor plague issue and made to demand from the manufacturers that the capacitors are of decent quality. Many PC parts suppliers proudly boast that their products contain ‘Japanese capacitors’ – PC consumers (now wiser, having been bitten several times) value this and are prepared to pay more. It is the poor old non-expert consumer and uninformed retailer who are still suffering 10 years later!
0 replies I'm so pleased I have come across this article. I'm a complete mess after realising I have missed by 8 days, to register the Samsung Ecobubble washing machine we have bought last November. It turned out that there's a 90-day period wherein the buyer must register the appliance otherwise the 5 year warranty is forfeited. Checking Samsung's website, they still give a 24 month warranty to the product, but given that we paid £650 for it I think the warranty should come automatic without the need for registration. Still I registered the product changing the date to a later period just so I'm allowed to submit the invoice, I'm not sure what the reply would be once they see the actual date in the invoice though. Thank you very much for this post!
I’m so pleased I have come across this article. I’m a complete mess after realising I have missed by 8 days, to register the Samsung Ecobubble washing machine we have bought last November. It turned out that there’s a 90-day period wherein the buyer must register the appliance otherwise the 5 year warranty is forfeited. Checking Samsung’s website, they still give a 24 month warranty to the product, but given that we paid £650 for it I think the warranty should come automatic without the need for registration. Still I registered the product changing the date to a later period just so I’m allowed to submit the invoice, I’m not sure what the reply would be once they see the actual date in the invoice though.
Thank you very much for this post!
0 replies My Hotpoint fridge started overheating recently after only 6months and there seems to be some sort of oil or grease on the floor underneath. The retailer advised me to ring the manufacturer as it was still under their guarantee. I did this and was given a date for an engineer to call 4days ahead. I was also talked into taking out an extended warranty for 2years at £3 per month . After finding your website I'm now wondering if I've been a bit hasty.
My Hotpoint fridge started overheating recently after only 6months and there seems to be some sort of oil or grease on the floor underneath. The retailer advised me to ring the manufacturer as it was still under their guarantee. I did this and was given a date for an engineer to call 4days ahead. I was also talked into taking out an extended warranty for 2years at £3 per month .
After finding your website I’m now wondering if I’ve been a bit hasty.
0 replies Hi I wonder id anyone could assist me or advise me. we purchased a Samsung t.v. took out three years guarantee it run out on the 31/7/13 and yes it is now broke 5 weeks after it has expired. I have looked on Google and it seems to be a common problem that you get a white screen but still sound on the t.v its not used much as its in the dinning room but to me it still a new TV as our last TV lasted 15 years. I am unsure how I stand legal can anyone guide me in the right direction.
Hi I wonder id anyone could assist me or advise me. we purchased a Samsung t.v. took out three years guarantee it run out on the 31/7/13 and yes it is now broke 5 weeks after it has expired. I have looked on Google and it seems to be a common problem that you get a white screen but still sound on the t.v its not used much as its in the dinning room but to me it still a new TV as our last TV lasted 15 years. I am unsure how I stand legal can anyone guide me in the right direction.
0 replies Hello S: If you were to take them to the small claims court (the seller - not Bosch) and won, you'd be likely the get the repair done free. If as it seems they are unable to repair it, that should strengthen your chances of winning because you'd be saying, I paid £750 for this high quality microwave and after 3 years it's scrap. Any judgement would take into account you've had 3 years of use though, so if for example they believe the average life expectancy is 7 years you'd be entitled to the cost of a replacement minus the value of 3 years which would roughly be the situation you have now. There are all sorts of variable and unknowns such as how long the "average" life expectancy of the appliance actually is. Ultimately any Sale of Goods Act responsibility is only on the seller and the manufacturer has none. They are acting purely to try and retain a customer (although clearly not too well).
Hello S: If you were to take them to the small claims court (the seller – not Bosch) and won, you’d be likely the get the repair done free. If as it seems they are unable to repair it, that should strengthen your chances of winning because you’d be saying, I paid £750 for this high quality microwave and after 3 years it’s scrap. Any judgement would take into account you’ve had 3 years of use though, so if for example they believe the average life expectancy is 7 years you’d be entitled to the cost of a replacement minus the value of 3 years which would roughly be the situation you have now.
There are all sorts of variable and unknowns such as how long the “average” life expectancy of the appliance actually is. Ultimately any Sale of Goods Act responsibility is only on the seller and the manufacturer has none. They are acting purely to try and retain a customer (although clearly not too well).
0 replies "Whitegoodshelp (Andy Trigg) says: June 26, 2013 at 12:21 pm Many thanks for the update S, it’s so much more useful when people update on events. If the cost of repair is £260 on a product costing £750 after 3 years that’s very disappointing. It’s roughly 35% of the purchasing price. If it was a car costing £9,000 and needed £3,150 spending on it at 3 years it’d be a hell of a shock, but if it was a radio costing £50 which needed £17.50 spending on it, it wouldn’t seem so bad. Everything’s relative and things can seem different according to purchase costs. Your case seems a little in the middle. I don’t know if they have any formulas to work on at the small claims court or not but if it broke down straight after I would think you have a strong claim to reject the repair go back to the retailer saying it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time for what it cost and Bosch haven’t repaired it properly." Another quick update re the above... The microwave has now had 3 goes at being repaired with the final conclusion being that it was 'leaking microwaves'. Bosch have dithered a fair bit (the quality of their emails and admin is appalling) but they have now offered to replace the faulty microwave with the exact same model for £265. The replacement is new and will come with a 2 year warranty. The only condition is that I have to give them the old one back. The question is whether this is reasonable. The model has been around a while and is out of stock most places. A typical retail price for those that still sell it is around the £600-700 mark so I'd be paying about 40% of the new price to replace it. What do you think? Thanks, S.
“Whitegoodshelp (Andy Trigg) says:
June 26, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Many thanks for the update S, it’s so much more useful when people update on events. If the cost of repair is £260 on a product costing £750 after 3 years that’s very disappointing. It’s roughly 35% of the purchasing price. If it was a car costing £9,000 and needed £3,150 spending on it at 3 years it’d be a hell of a shock, but if it was a radio costing £50 which needed £17.50 spending on it, it wouldn’t seem so bad. Everything’s relative and things can seem different according to purchase costs. Your case seems a little in the middle. I don’t know if they have any formulas to work on at the small claims court or not but if it broke down straight after I would think you have a strong claim to reject the repair go back to the retailer saying it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time for what it cost and Bosch haven’t repaired it properly.”
Another quick update re the above…
The microwave has now had 3 goes at being repaired with the final conclusion being that it was ‘leaking microwaves’.
Bosch have dithered a fair bit (the quality of their emails and admin is appalling) but they have now offered to replace the faulty microwave with the exact same model for £265. The replacement is new and will come with a 2 year warranty. The only condition is that I have to give them the old one back.
The question is whether this is reasonable.
The model has been around a while and is out of stock most places. A typical retail price for those that still sell it is around the £600-700 mark so I’d be paying about 40% of the new price to replace it.
What do you think?
Thanks,
S.
0 replies I've not heard of such a policy. The T&Cs state it must be in reasonable condition though. They must be making some big profits if they can afford such a crazy policy.
I’ve not heard of such a policy. The T&Cs state it must be in reasonable condition though. They must be making some big profits if they can afford such a crazy policy.
0 replies Many thanks for the update S, it's so much more useful when people update on events. If the cost of repair is £260 on a product costing £750 after 3 years that's very disappointing. It's roughly 35% of the purchasing price. If it was a car costing £9,000 and needed £3,150 spending on it at 3 years it'd be a hell of a shock, but if it was a radio costing £50 which needed £17.50 spending on it, it wouldn't seem so bad. Everything's relative and things can seem different according to purchase costs. Your case seems a little in the middle. I don't know if they have any formulas to work on at the small claims court or not but if it broke down straight after I would think you have a strong claim to reject the repair go back to the retailer saying it hasn't lasted a reasonable time for what it cost and Bosch haven't repaired it properly.
Many thanks for the update S, it’s so much more useful when people update on events. If the cost of repair is £260 on a product costing £750 after 3 years that’s very disappointing. It’s roughly 35% of the purchasing price. If it was a car costing £9,000 and needed £3,150 spending on it at 3 years it’d be a hell of a shock, but if it was a radio costing £50 which needed £17.50 spending on it, it wouldn’t seem so bad. Everything’s relative and things can seem different according to purchase costs. Your case seems a little in the middle. I don’t know if they have any formulas to work on at the small claims court or not but if it broke down straight after I would think you have a strong claim to reject the repair go back to the retailer saying it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time for what it cost and Bosch haven’t repaired it properly.
0 replies Re Whitegoodshelp (Andy Trigg) says: May 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm Let us know how you get on please S. You may remember the tale of my faulty microwave (above) and for those interested, here is an update.... I will be polite and say the retailer (a large one based in the East Midlands) was slightly less than helpful. Bosch, though, were much better and agreed to discount all parts by 50%. The total cost of the repair was estimated at being £120. Not great but nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. The engineer was only here 20 minutes but it was sufficient to derive an invoice, payable to him, for an additional £140! He claimed the magnetron had 'blown up the inverter' and so he had had to replace that too. I paid his bill but asked whether I could keep the faulty inverter. He clearly didn't like this idea and made excuses about it being dangerous and had to be disposed of in a certain way. Anyway, I insisted, and I've now got a perfectly pristine looking inverter sat in my kitchen. It may well be 'blown up' but it certainly doesn't look it and an electrician friend of mine will be testing it this weekend. Anyway, I digress. The really annoying conclusion is that not only am I £260 poorer - but 10 seconds after the engineer had disappeared, the exact same fault returned :( Watch this space..... S.
Re Whitegoodshelp (Andy Trigg) says:
May 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Let us know how you get on please S.
You may remember the tale of my faulty microwave (above) and for those interested, here is an update….
I will be polite and say the retailer (a large one based in the East Midlands) was slightly less than helpful. Bosch, though, were much better and agreed to discount all parts by 50%. The total cost of the repair was estimated at being £120. Not great but nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be.
The engineer was only here 20 minutes but it was sufficient to derive an invoice, payable to him, for an additional £140! He claimed the magnetron had ‘blown up the inverter’ and so he had had to replace that too.
I paid his bill but asked whether I could keep the faulty inverter. He clearly didn’t like this idea and made excuses about it being dangerous and had to be disposed of in a certain way. Anyway, I insisted, and I’ve now got a perfectly pristine looking inverter sat in my kitchen. It may well be ‘blown up’ but it certainly doesn’t look it and an electrician friend of mine will be testing it this weekend.
Anyway, I digress. The really annoying conclusion is that not only am I £260 poorer – but 10 seconds after the engineer had disappeared, the exact same fault returned :(
Watch this space…..
S.
0 replies Let us know how you get on please S.
Let us know how you get on please S.
0 replies Unfortunately that's how it works S. The SOGA is so ambiguous people argue over it all the time. With a law so open to interpretation the consumer is always likely to interpret it one way and the retailer and manufacturer another. The people with the best "real world experience" are the CAB but I have heard of cases where people have won cases such as when a 3 year old lap top failed and when 3 or 4 year old washing machines had major faults too. In your specific case, everything depends on the cost of the repair. I have to admit I assumed the magnetron was a terminal fault, in which case I would put my money on winning a case that a £750 microwave should last longer than 3 years (if it's just been used normally and not semi commercially or worse). A quick check on Bosch magnetron prices brings up some at £150 and some at £89. These could be ones from cheaper models and yours could be more expensive though. I would say you need to get a quote for the cost of repair and don't understand why you haven't had one. I'm presuming if you know the magnetron has definitely gone they've inspected it so why no price? If you've had someone local out there's always the chance they are wrong, but ultimately you need to know exactly what Bosch will charge to fix it before making a proper judgement. If they offer to fix it for say £150 (including a 50% discount on parts) then a judge may well agree that's acceptable because the SOGA does not preclude breakdowns. It doesn't say it shouldn't break down after a year or two of use, it says it should last a reasonable time (in total) and be free from inherent faults. If they say it's going to cost hundreds of pounds it may be different. At the end of the day the vast majority of people will not go to the effort of taking them to the small claims court despite it being pretty easy and not expensive. Therefore, many or even most retailers simply use that knowledge to bluff it out knowing 99% of people will just go away, or reluctantly accept their offers. Once you know how much it will cost to fix you can decide if it's acceptable or not.
Unfortunately that’s how it works S. The SOGA is so ambiguous people argue over it all the time. With a law so open to interpretation the consumer is always likely to interpret it one way and the retailer and manufacturer another. The people with the best “real world experience” are the CAB but I have heard of cases where people have won cases such as when a 3 year old lap top failed and when 3 or 4 year old washing machines had major faults too.
In your specific case, everything depends on the cost of the repair. I have to admit I assumed the magnetron was a terminal fault, in which case I would put my money on winning a case that a £750 microwave should last longer than 3 years (if it’s just been used normally and not semi commercially or worse). A quick check on Bosch magnetron prices brings up some at £150 and some at £89. These could be ones from cheaper models and yours could be more expensive though.
I would say you need to get a quote for the cost of repair and don’t understand why you haven’t had one. I’m presuming if you know the magnetron has definitely gone they’ve inspected it so why no price? If you’ve had someone local out there’s always the chance they are wrong, but ultimately you need to know exactly what Bosch will charge to fix it before making a proper judgement.
If they offer to fix it for say £150 (including a 50% discount on parts) then a judge may well agree that’s acceptable because the SOGA does not preclude breakdowns. It doesn’t say it shouldn’t break down after a year or two of use, it says it should last a reasonable time (in total) and be free from inherent faults.
If they say it’s going to cost hundreds of pounds it may be different. At the end of the day the vast majority of people will not go to the effort of taking them to the small claims court despite it being pretty easy and not expensive. Therefore, many or even most retailers simply use that knowledge to bluff it out knowing 99% of people will just go away, or reluctantly accept their offers. Once you know how much it will cost to fix you can decide if it’s acceptable or not.
0 replies "Andy Trigg says: April 11, 2013 at 10:42 am S: Yes, you need to pursue the retailer if Bosch won’t help, only they have legal responsibility under the sale of goods act. A high quality and expensive appliance should clearly last longer than 3 years. If a fault is relatively minor and not too expensive to repair it may not be so clear cut, but if it’s a very expensive repair, a major part, or beyond economical repair it’s totally unacceptable on an appliance costing that much. If it was a £60 microwave fair enough, but I think you have a very strong case and need to take advice from one of the consumer groups such as Citizens Advice" Andy, Thanks for your advice above. I contacted the CAB who said that my only recourse would be to take them to court if they wouldn't play ball - although they did say that the offer made, albeit a very poor one in my view, may be deemed sufficient by the judge. Have you (or anyone else) had any 'real world' experience of this kind of case? Many thanks all, S.
“Andy Trigg says:
April 11, 2013 at 10:42 am
S: Yes, you need to pursue the retailer if Bosch won’t help, only they have legal responsibility under the sale of goods act.
A high quality and expensive appliance should clearly last longer than 3 years. If a fault is relatively minor and not too expensive to repair it may not be so clear cut, but if it’s a very expensive repair, a major part, or beyond economical repair it’s totally unacceptable on an appliance costing that much. If it was a £60 microwave fair enough, but I think you have a very strong case and need to take advice from one of the consumer groups such as Citizens Advice”
Andy,
Thanks for your advice above. I contacted the CAB who said that my only recourse would be to take them to court if they wouldn’t play ball – although they did say that the offer made, albeit a very poor one in my view, may be deemed sufficient by the judge.
Have you (or anyone else) had any ‘real world’ experience of this kind of case?
Many thanks all,
S.
0 replies Hi I found your site when looking up details on the white goods act. I bought and had installed a brand New ferolli boiler F28 in June 2010, it's been serviced each year but started losing pressure a few weeks ago, I started topping the pressure up and realised it was happening too regularly so called in my usual man to service/check it to find the heat exchanger has cracked - he took a photo and said it was one of the worst faults he had ever seen and suggested I contact Ferolli or even trading standards and quote the white goods act as he said it should not have this much damage after less than 3 yrs - I've tried contacting ferolli but aren't getting anywhere is it worth contacting trading standards? I have all service and installation details
Hi I found your site when looking up details on the white goods act. I bought and had installed a brand New ferolli boiler F28 in June 2010, it’s been serviced each year but started losing pressure a few weeks ago, I started topping the pressure up and realised it was happening too regularly so called in my usual man to service/check it to find the heat exchanger has cracked – he took a photo and said it was one of the worst faults he had ever seen and suggested I contact Ferolli or even trading standards and quote the white goods act as he said it should not have this much damage after less than 3 yrs – I’ve tried contacting ferolli but aren’t getting anywhere is it worth contacting trading standards? I have all service and installation details
0 replies S: Yes, you need to pursue the retailer if Bosch won't help, only they have legal responsibility under the sale of goods act. A high quality and expensive appliance should clearly last longer than 3 years. If a fault is relatively minor and not too expensive to repair it may not be so clear cut, but if it's a very expensive repair, a major part, or beyond economical repair it's totally unacceptable on an appliance costing that much. If it was a £60 microwave fair enough, but I think you have a very strong case and need to take advice from one of the consumer groups such as Citizens Advice.
S: Yes, you need to pursue the retailer if Bosch won’t help, only they have legal responsibility under the sale of goods act.
A high quality and expensive appliance should clearly last longer than 3 years. If a fault is relatively minor and not too expensive to repair it may not be so clear cut, but if it’s a very expensive repair, a major part, or beyond economical repair it’s totally unacceptable on an appliance costing that much. If it was a £60 microwave fair enough, but I think you have a very strong case and need to take advice from one of the consumer groups such as Citizens Advice.
0 replies Hi, I stumbled across this blog while looking for some help over a problem I've got with a Bosch Combination Microwave - perhaps someone could offer some advice? I bought a fitted microwave (along with a separate oven, hob, extractor hood and coffee maker) a little over 3 years ago. The total cost of the package was just over £2,400 which included a 15% discount. A quick look at Google shows that the microwave in isolation currently retails at anything between £750 and £1000 I now find that the magnetron has failed but the supplier has essentially said "sorry - but tough". I fed this back to Bosch who tried to sell me a repair plan (extended warranty) for about £300 to cover the cost of the repair. Alternatively, they have offered me an engineer call out (£89+Vat) along with a 50% discount on the yet unknown cost of parts. Neither of these seems particularly attractive. My argument is that products of this high quality (Bosch told me they were in there reply so it must be true!) and high price should be expected to last longer than 3 years. What does anyone think? Should I push the retailer with mention of SOGA and "fit for purpose"? Any help appreciated. S.
Hi, I stumbled across this blog while looking for some help over a problem I’ve got with a Bosch Combination Microwave – perhaps someone could offer some advice?
I bought a fitted microwave (along with a separate oven, hob, extractor hood and coffee maker) a little over 3 years ago. The total cost of the package was just over £2,400 which included a 15% discount. A quick look at Google shows that the microwave in isolation currently retails at anything between £750 and £1000
I now find that the magnetron has failed but the supplier has essentially said “sorry – but tough”. I fed this back to Bosch who tried to sell me a repair plan (extended warranty) for about £300 to cover the cost of the repair. Alternatively, they have offered me an engineer call out (£89+Vat) along with a 50% discount on the yet unknown cost of parts.
Neither of these seems particularly attractive.
My argument is that products of this high quality (Bosch told me they were in there reply so it must be true!) and high price should be expected to last longer than 3 years.
What does anyone think? Should I push the retailer with mention of SOGA and “fit for purpose”?
Any help appreciated.
S.
0 replies Anonymous: This blog is about white goods but the principles of the sale of goods act should apply to all products. The chances are they'll claim you haven't looked after it. Unfortunately, leather sofas need a lot of care and exposure to moisture (we were even told to open windows when it rained to allow some damp air into the room). Unless they are painstakingly cared for according to instructions they don't tend to do well in centrally heated rooms, which is why I'd never buy one again. Having said that, if you have looked after it you should be rightly upset. After 6 months the onus is on us to prove it's faulty though. If it can't stand up to rough treatment from kids etc they may have mis-sold it if they knew.
Anonymous: This blog is about white goods but the principles of the sale of goods act should apply to all products. The chances are they’ll claim you haven’t looked after it. Unfortunately, leather sofas need a lot of care and exposure to moisture (we were even told to open windows when it rained to allow some damp air into the room). Unless they are painstakingly cared for according to instructions they don’t tend to do well in centrally heated rooms, which is why I’d never buy one again. Having said that, if you have looked after it you should be rightly upset. After 6 months the onus is on us to prove it’s faulty though. If it can’t stand up to rough treatment from kids etc they may have mis-sold it if they knew.
0 replies i have issue with sofa less than 16mnths old falling apart leather pealing cracking sofa company said down to wear and tear they dont wont to know what are my rights
i have issue with sofa less than 16mnths old falling apart leather pealing cracking sofa company said down to wear and tear they dont wont to know what are my rights
0 replies Hello I have just found this website as I was looking for back up to my complaints to Hotpoint, I have a Hotpoint Aquarius washing machine which is 3 years old at the end of this month, I also have an extended warranty with Domestic and General which I took out just over a year ago when the machine broke down. This fault started on 16th July, phoned D&G who said phone Hotpoint in the morning, first appointment was 19th July, engineer replaced pump even though I'd left him a not with symptons, machine was cutting out on rinse sometimes and not others door not opening, not being able to re-programme it even after switching off at mains, machine was clicking 3 times and door not opening, he left saying machine was done, on the second wash it went again same things happening, phoned D&G again told to phone hotpoint next morning, they spoke to the engineer who had called, he said I thought it might be the motor! he didn't mention this on completing the job, hotpoint then said next appointment is 26th July as Hotpoint only have 1 delivery of parts a week! I told them I wasn't happy they said complain to D&G, I did they said they have to be given reasonable time to repair it, nothing I could do. Different engineer came out on 26th said it could be one of about 3 things wrong with it, but he wouldn't have ordered just one part. He was a franchisee for an outside company which Hotpoint use, he fitted the new motor but said he would put a note on screen that it would possibly happen again as he wasn't convinced it was the motor, on 4th wash after he left it went wrong again on the 27th July, phoned D&G again told them I was even less happy now, they said they would refer it to their complaints dept. but phone Hotpoint again, guess what next appointment for them just to come and look at it is 2nd August, I said they were being ridiculous to be told that 1st come 1st served on engineers being sent out, even though this will have been going on for nearly 3 weeks by the time the engineer re-visits, more time off work another week of washing by hand or launderette, why did I pay for a washing machine in the 1st place. The second engineer that visited also told me they have 2 deliveries of parts to them a week! on the last phone call to hotpoint man on the phone tells me Hotpoint/Indesit are not covered by EU Laws so they mean nothing! Back to D&G to be told team that deal with complaints are not in until Moday, I should have heard something by Tuesday pm. How annoyed am I.
Hello I have just found this website as I was looking for back up to my complaints to Hotpoint, I have a Hotpoint Aquarius washing machine which is 3 years old at the end of this month, I also have an extended warranty with Domestic and General which I took out just over a year ago when the machine broke down.
This fault started on 16th July, phoned D&G who said phone Hotpoint in the morning, first appointment was 19th July, engineer replaced pump even though I’d left him a not with symptons, machine was cutting out on rinse sometimes and not others door not opening, not being able to re-programme it even after switching off at mains, machine was clicking 3 times and door not opening, he left saying machine was done, on the second wash it went again same things happening, phoned D&G again told to phone hotpoint next morning, they spoke to the engineer who had called, he said I thought it might be the motor! he didn’t mention this on completing the job, hotpoint then said next appointment is 26th July as Hotpoint only have 1 delivery of parts a week! I told them I wasn’t happy they said complain to D&G, I did they said they have to be given reasonable time to repair it, nothing I could do.
Different engineer came out on 26th said it could be one of about 3 things wrong with it, but he wouldn’t have ordered just one part. He was a franchisee for an outside company which Hotpoint use, he fitted the new motor but said he would put a note on screen that it would possibly happen again as he wasn’t convinced it was the motor, on 4th wash after he left it went wrong again on the 27th July, phoned D&G again told them I was even less happy now, they said they would refer it to their complaints dept. but phone Hotpoint again, guess what next appointment for them just to come and look at it is 2nd August, I said they were being ridiculous to be told that 1st come 1st served on engineers being sent out, even though this will have been going on for nearly 3 weeks by the time the engineer re-visits, more time off work another week of washing by hand or launderette, why did I pay for a washing machine in the 1st place.
The second engineer that visited also told me they have 2 deliveries of parts to them a week! on the last phone call to hotpoint man on the phone tells me Hotpoint/Indesit are not covered by EU Laws so they mean nothing! Back to D&G to be told team that deal with complaints are not in until Moday, I should have heard something by Tuesday pm. How annoyed am I.
0 replies I bought a Beko fridge /freezer on line from Currys in August 2010. It was installed with packaging left around the compressor....A piece of cardboard and two blocks of polystyrene. Consequently two weeks age it stopped working. Beko informed me there are clear instructions to installers that packaging is there to protect the machine in transit. The two men who delivered it also broke the tiles in my porch removing the old freezer and gave fraudulent contact details. Currys sorted it all so have a full record of my original purchase. When I originally contacted them they admitted liability for the packaging and said if I got an engineers report stating that was the cause of the failure they would re imburse me but they advise me to accept £130 in full settlement as they feel the machine will have to be replaced as more parts might have been damaged and not just repaired and I have had 21 months' use from it. I am really at a loss as to what to do next Do I get an engineer's report and fight through the small claims court but will I get anything considering they have offered compensation? I could technically get a new freezer for half price if I accept (I still feel they are totally liable in the circumstances) To complicate matters , after 2 weeks of inactivity the freezer is showing signs of working again but the compressor gets very hot quickly and I'm worried it's a fire risk. Deep down I know I'll have to replace it but don't know how to tackle the fact that the machine was badly installed. The more I think about it the worse my indecision gets. Help someone please
I bought a Beko fridge /freezer on line from Currys in August 2010. It was installed with packaging left around the compressor….A piece of cardboard and two blocks of polystyrene. Consequently two weeks age it stopped working. Beko informed me there are clear instructions to installers that packaging is there to protect the machine in transit. The two men who delivered it also broke the tiles in my porch removing the old freezer and gave fraudulent contact details. Currys sorted it all so have a full record of my original purchase. When I originally contacted them they admitted liability for the packaging and said if I got an engineers report stating that was the cause of the failure they would re imburse me but they advise me to accept £130 in full settlement as they feel the machine will have to be replaced as more parts might have been damaged and not just repaired and I have had 21 months’ use from it.
I am really at a loss as to what to do next
Do I get an engineer’s report and fight through the small claims court but will I get anything considering they have offered compensation?
I could technically get a new freezer for half price if I accept (I still feel they are totally liable in the circumstances)
To complicate matters , after 2 weeks of inactivity the freezer is showing signs of working again but the compressor gets very hot quickly and I’m worried it’s a fire risk.
Deep down I know I’ll have to replace it but don’t know how to tackle the fact that the machine was badly installed.
The more I think about it the worse my indecision gets.
Help someone please
0 replies I bought a sumsung tv two years and one month ago and for the last month or so it is now turning itself on and of all the time, sometimes coming back on straight away, but sometimes turning itself of for an hour at a time and then suddenly coming back on again. I now have to ensure i unplug when out of the house in for safety. After research on the net appears to be a common problem with samsung and the capacitors burning out. I have emailed samsung asking if there was a product recall for free repair and they have answered yes it is known problem but only on some sets and if my model was not one of these then there is no free repair. my thought is whether or not mine is one of the models, the tv obviously has a fault known in other models so should still be covereed. My tv has sat on its stand for two years and not been hit, moved, used or abused, so i cannot see that anything i have done would cause the fault. The TV was bought from Currys for £550, which i do not consider to be cheap and certainly would expect it to only last two years before i myself would have to pay out for repairs or replacement. Can anyone advise if i should be arguing with Saumsung or Currys and whether under the sale of goods 6 year guidance, if i would have a case for this. Cheers
I bought a sumsung tv two years and one month ago and for the last month or so it is now turning itself on and of all the time, sometimes coming back on straight away, but sometimes turning itself of for an hour at a time and then suddenly coming back on again. I now have to ensure i unplug when out of the house in for safety. After research on the net appears to be a common problem with samsung and the capacitors burning out. I have emailed samsung asking if there was a product recall for free repair and they have answered yes it is known problem but only on some sets and if my model was not one of these then there is no free repair.
my thought is whether or not mine is one of the models, the tv obviously has a fault known in other models so should still be covereed. My tv has sat on its stand for two years and not been hit, moved, used or abused, so i cannot see that anything i have done would cause the fault.
The TV was bought from Currys for £550, which i do not consider to be cheap and certainly would expect it to only last two years before i myself would have to pay out for repairs or replacement.
Can anyone advise if i should be arguing with Saumsung or Currys and whether under the sale of goods 6 year guidance, if i would have a case for this.
Cheers
0 replies Maybe get hold of a health and safety board or ask the fire brigade perhaps who you might be able to report this to then threaten Hotpoint with said board as this is a dreadful safety issue, or lack thereof !! Could be worth a try........or even your local press.........outrageous that they're happy to ignore this !!
Maybe get hold of a health and safety board or ask the fire brigade perhaps who you might be able to report this to then threaten Hotpoint with said board as this is a dreadful safety issue, or lack thereof !! Could be worth a try……..or even your local press………outrageous that they’re happy to ignore this !!
0 replies Hi, wonder if you can help. I bought a Belling Gas Cooker from Comet in January 2010. Within a few months I had to contact the help line because the grill was going out after a few minutes, the engineer repaired it. Shortly after the 12 month guarantee expired it the same problem occured but only for a few days so i didn't pursue it, and it was fine after that. About 2 weeks ago it started to go out again after a minute or so, and this time the problem recurred. Increasingly longer periods of time have been necessary in holding the ignition key and on several occasions the grill has fired up literally blowing flames out into the kitchen. I don't trust it's safety. Now i cant get the grill to work at all- i hold the ignition in for the stated 15 seconds, and up to a minute, but as soon i release the ignition the flames go out. I typed make and model no. into google and found a recall on same cooker-G755 MK2- for a problem with the grill. I called Belling to be told that didn't affect my cooker as it was a different serial no. The woman i spoke to told me that because the warranty has expired the engineer callout will be £167 plus vat!! The oven was £270!! (I don't think this is right, can you advise whether i contact Comet or Belling? Thanks-Kate Please let me know if i should go to TS- i appreciate that i may have a battle on my hands with Belling! In meantime have no grill and am concerned because of recalls, thanks.
Hi, wonder if you can help. I bought a Belling Gas Cooker from Comet in January 2010. Within a few months I had to contact the help line because the grill was going out after a few minutes, the engineer repaired it. Shortly after the 12 month guarantee expired it the same problem occured but only for a few days so i didn’t pursue it, and it was fine after that. About 2 weeks ago it started to go out again after a minute or so, and this time the problem recurred. Increasingly longer periods of time have been necessary in holding the ignition key and on several occasions the grill has fired up literally blowing flames out into the kitchen. I don’t trust it’s safety. Now i cant get the grill to work at all- i hold the ignition in for the stated 15 seconds, and up to a minute, but as soon i release the ignition the flames go out. I typed make and model no. into google and found a recall on same cooker-G755 MK2- for a problem with the grill. I called Belling to be told that didn’t affect my cooker as it was a different serial no. The woman i spoke to told me that because the warranty has expired the engineer callout will be £167 plus vat!! The oven was £270!! (I don’t think this is right, can you advise whether i contact Comet or Belling? Thanks-Kate
Please let me know if i should go to TS- i appreciate that i may have a battle on my hands with Belling! In meantime have no grill and am concerned because of recalls, thanks.
0 replies Les: Your experience is very typical. The problem you have is that you don't know what has caused the problem yet, therefore you can't know how much of a complaint you have. It might not be considered a breach of the sale of goods act for a product to break down after just over 2 years per sae. But if it does it repeatedly, or it's had an expensive breakdown - especially one that brings into question whether it's worth repairing or not - it might be considered that it hasn't lasted a reasonable time. You might argue that having to spend £150 after 2 years is unreasonable on a washing machine costing £400 and I would have some sympathy with that. However, the retailer and the manufacturer are going to stick to their original guns that's for sure. This doesn't mean they are right, it just means a fight. (I think I just invented a slogan). I think you would need to get some consumer advice if you want to take it further. I have some links to appropriate places here White goods: Consumer advice section
Les: Your experience is very typical. The problem you have is that you don’t know what has caused the problem yet, therefore you can’t know how much of a complaint you have. It might not be considered a breach of the sale of goods act for a product to break down after just over 2 years per sae. But if it does it repeatedly, or it’s had an expensive breakdown – especially one that brings into question whether it’s worth repairing or not – it might be considered that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time.
You might argue that having to spend £150 after 2 years is unreasonable on a washing machine costing £400 and I would have some sympathy with that. However, the retailer and the manufacturer are going to stick to their original guns that’s for sure. This doesn’t mean they are right, it just means a fight. (I think I just invented a slogan). I think you would need to get some consumer advice if you want to take it further. I have some links to appropriate places here White goods: Consumer advice section
0 replies can any one tell me where i can find an enginner for a ikea kitchen thats falling to pieces in less than 2yrs ikea need a detailed report
can any one tell me where i can find an enginner for a ikea kitchen thats falling to pieces in less than 2yrs ikea need a detailed report
0 replies Hi again I had forgot about this site and fact I put a message up regarding my beko fridge and then my lap top , Just came on a I had I email saying had comment and I noticed that you did not reply to either of mine but to all the rest Well I did manage to get my fridge fixed from beko them selfs for nothing and my laptop through sony both out with the 2yr supposid gaurantee , pays to contct them and even speak to diff people if on es don'
Hi again I had forgot about this site and fact I put a message up regarding my beko fridge and then my lap top ,
Just came on a I had I email saying had comment and I noticed that you did not reply to either of mine but to all the rest
Well I did manage to get my fridge fixed from beko them selfs for nothing and my laptop through sony both out with the 2yr supposid gaurantee , pays to contct them and even speak to diff people if on es don’
0 replies Really nice to hear a good result for a change, Helen.
Really nice to hear a good result for a change, Helen.
0 replies Thanks for the update Helen. That's why I recommend them so much and buy most of my things from them. At the end of the day I want good service and you are more likely to get it from John Lewis.
Thanks for the update Helen. That’s why I recommend them so much and buy most of my things from them. At the end of the day I want good service and you are more likely to get it from John Lewis.
0 replies Just an update to this: I have now been credited with £250 towards the cost of a new machine. I've been VERY impressed with John Lewis & wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. When I read about the amount of hassle people have had with other retailers I know I'm very lucky!
Just an update to this: I have now been credited with £250 towards the cost of a new machine. I’ve been VERY impressed with John Lewis & wouldn’t hesitate to buy from them again. When I read about the amount of hassle people have had with other retailers I know I’m very lucky!
0 replies Thanks very much for your reply, it's really helpful to get an expert's impartial opinion. I think on balance I'll probably accept their offer & hope the replacement machine is more reliable!
Thanks very much for your reply, it’s really helpful to get an expert’s impartial opinion. I think on balance I’ll probably accept their offer & hope the replacement machine is more reliable!
0 replies Phil Gallagher: You don't state exactly when in 2009 you bought the TV but even assuming it was in January it hasn't even lasted 2 years? If it's going to cost £500 to repair it's obviously beyond economical repair and clearly hasn't lasted a reasonable time. If it was on display in the window you were unwise to accept it without a big discount, but you did accept it knowing it may have already used up an unknown quantity of its life. You might raise this point in your case as it appears you were additionally hard done to by not even receiving a totally brand new product - though as I say you were aware of it and accepted it at the time. I don't know Richer Sounds well enough to be sure of their reputation regarding these issues but I know they pride themselves on good customer service and I've bought things from them myself. I think they may work off relatively small margins, and any one working on small margins tends to be less generous when it comes to problems like this. However, although there is no guarantee you would win, I believe a small claims court judge would agree that less than 2 years life from a new TV is not a reasonable lifespan under the Sale of Goods Act and would find in your favour. I would contact the shop and advise them politely that if you don't get this resolved within the next few days (or week) you are going to lodge a claim in the small claims court.
Phil Gallagher: You don’t state exactly when in 2009 you bought the TV but even assuming it was in January it hasn’t even lasted 2 years? If it’s going to cost £500 to repair it’s obviously beyond economical repair and clearly hasn’t lasted a reasonable time.
If it was on display in the window you were unwise to accept it without a big discount, but you did accept it knowing it may have already used up an unknown quantity of its life. You might raise this point in your case as it appears you were additionally hard done to by not even receiving a totally brand new product – though as I say you were aware of it and accepted it at the time.
I don’t know Richer Sounds well enough to be sure of their reputation regarding these issues but I know they pride themselves on good customer service and I’ve bought things from them myself. I think they may work off relatively small margins, and any one working on small margins tends to be less generous when it comes to problems like this.
However, although there is no guarantee you would win, I believe a small claims court judge would agree that less than 2 years life from a new TV is not a reasonable lifespan under the Sale of Goods Act and would find in your favour. I would contact the shop and advise them politely that if you don’t get this resolved within the next few days (or week) you are going to lodge a claim in the small claims court.
0 replies Helen: Yes, no one would be able to swap a machine over or give compensation based only on a customer saying the old one was faulty so it's fair enough they needed something official. It's a shame the original engineer was unable to give a written invoice stating his quote to repair the washer. I think £250 towards a replacement if buying from them equates to half the cost of a new one (even looking at a £500 replacement cost), which I personally feel sounds reasonable. I would think most of the big national retailers wouldn't go anywhere near that far, and would more than likely just be telling you there's nothing they can do now as it's out of guarantee - and treating you as if you were stupid for not taking out one of their extended warranties. I can see your point of view counting in the £60 cost of getting an engineer report but technically that's the fault of the original engineer who appears to have refused to give you a proper invoice with an estimate of the cost of repair on it. Maybe if he didn't charge you it's not so bad, but I see no logical reason why he couldn't have obliged even if he exacted a small charge for doing so. I think £305 to repair a 2 and a half year old washing machine that can be replaced for hardly any more is obviously beyond economic repair. The most expensive Zanussi washing machine on John Lewis's web site is only £389 and the rest are from only £249. If you accept that the most expensive Zanussi replacement, with 2 years guarantee and free delivery is only £389 then £250 towards it sounds very reasonable to me especially bearing in mind you haven't needed to get involved in stressful arguments and threatening to take them to the small claims court.
Helen: Yes, no one would be able to swap a machine over or give compensation based only on a customer saying the old one was faulty so it’s fair enough they needed something official. It’s a shame the original engineer was unable to give a written invoice stating his quote to repair the washer.
I think £250 towards a replacement if buying from them equates to half the cost of a new one (even looking at a £500 replacement cost), which I personally feel sounds reasonable. I would think most of the big national retailers wouldn’t go anywhere near that far, and would more than likely just be telling you there’s nothing they can do now as it’s out of guarantee – and treating you as if you were stupid for not taking out one of their extended warranties.
I can see your point of view counting in the £60 cost of getting an engineer report but technically that’s the fault of the original engineer who appears to have refused to give you a proper invoice with an estimate of the cost of repair on it. Maybe if he didn’t charge you it’s not so bad, but I see no logical reason why he couldn’t have obliged even if he exacted a small charge for doing so.
I think £305 to repair a 2 and a half year old washing machine that can be replaced for hardly any more is obviously beyond economic repair. The most expensive Zanussi washing machine on John Lewis’s web site is only £389 and the rest are from only £249.
If you accept that the most expensive Zanussi replacement, with 2 years guarantee and free delivery is only £389 then £250 towards it sounds very reasonable to me especially bearing in mind you haven’t needed to get involved in stressful arguments and threatening to take them to the small claims court.
0 replies Dear Sir I Bought back in 2009 an LG 50pg3000 however as of the beginning of December 2011 the television developed a serious fault that requires 2 internal boards being replaced, after being mucked about by D&G & LG, i contacted Richer Sounds who i bought it off. After not having a TV for nearly 2 months with which they keep informing me it is being looked into with their head of Service department & someone from customer services, weeks have gone by with no communication & no sign of my TV being repaired I was wondering where do i stand as in theory this unit shouldnt have developed a fault this serious so soon(£500 was one quote), i should add however that this item was sold to me out of the window as there were no others available at the time (Which would have added to the wear & tear) & i wasnt offered any kind of discount at the time of purchase Any help will be much appreciated
Dear Sir
I Bought back in 2009 an LG 50pg3000 however as of the beginning of December 2011 the television developed a serious fault that requires 2 internal boards being replaced, after being mucked about by D&G & LG, i contacted Richer Sounds who i bought it off.
After not having a TV for nearly 2 months with which they keep informing me it is being looked into with their head of Service department & someone from customer services, weeks have gone by with no communication & no sign of my TV being repaired I was wondering where do i stand as in theory this unit shouldnt have developed a fault this serious so soon(£500 was one quote), i should add however that this item was sold to me out of the window as there were no others available at the time (Which would have added to the wear & tear) & i wasnt offered any kind of discount at the time of purchase
Any help will be much appreciated
0 replies Very interesting blog, and particularly this thread! I have a Zanussi washing machine which became extremely noisy at 2 years 7 months old - 7 months outside the warranty. I called our usual trusty engineer who diagnosed a failed drum & recommended buying a new machine. We purchased the washer from John Lewis (for £420) so I contacted them. As has been mentioned here JL would not even consider any action without an engineer's report but our engineer would not do this. So after paying £60, and waiting almost 2 weeks for the engineer recommended by JL to visit, his diagnosis was the same. The repair would cost £305. As a result JL have offered £160 cash or £250 towards a replacement (if purchased from them). They argue that the report does not explicitly say that the washer is "beyond economic repair" and that their offer exceeds SOGA's requirements. I realise that JL's response is better than many retailers offer, and my discussions with them have been amicable so far, but taking into account the money I've paid out on inspections (£70 in total) and the difference between what they've offered & the cost of a new machine this would leave us nearly £300 out of pocket. I also realise that as we'd had just over 2 and a half years from the machine any settlement could be reduced to take that into account. So - after all that - I guess my question is, would you accept their offer or not? I have asked for £300 but am I being unreasonable? I have a number of major hassles (this is minor in comparison) going on at the mo so I'm concerned that these are clouding my judgement somewhat! Thanks in advance
Very interesting blog, and particularly this thread! I have a Zanussi washing machine which became extremely noisy at 2 years 7 months old – 7 months outside the warranty. I called our usual trusty engineer who diagnosed a failed drum & recommended buying a new machine.
We purchased the washer from John Lewis (for £420) so I contacted them. As has been mentioned here JL would not even consider any action without an engineer’s report but our engineer would not do this. So after paying £60, and waiting almost 2 weeks for the engineer recommended by JL to visit, his diagnosis was the same. The repair would cost £305. As a result JL have offered £160 cash or £250 towards a replacement (if purchased from them). They argue that the report does not explicitly say that the washer is “beyond economic repair” and that their offer exceeds SOGA’s requirements.
I realise that JL’s response is better than many retailers offer, and my discussions with them
have been amicable so far, but taking into account the money I’ve paid out on inspections (£70 in total) and the difference between what they’ve offered & the cost of a new machine this would leave us nearly £300 out of pocket. I also realise that as we’d had just over 2 and a half years from the machine any settlement could be reduced to take that into account.
So – after all that – I guess my question is, would you accept their offer or not? I have asked for £300 but am I being unreasonable? I have a number of major hassles (this is minor in comparison) going on at the mo so I’m concerned that these are clouding my judgement somewhat!
Thanks in advance
0 replies I moved into a new Barrats house in April 2008 and it was fitted with whirlpool appliances, I am already on my second washer/dryer and have had the repair man out twice to this one. However this complaint isnt about the washer but about the oven - the oven door just spontaneously shattered like a car windscreen and we were lucky that my children weren't injured. I have been on various forums and have read about other people this has happened to. I have contacted Whirlpool and they just sent me a general letter stating that there is no manufacturing or design fault and that it was dangerous to continue to use it and we should contact them to organise an engineer at a cost of £80 and the replacement glass at £140. I have never before had brand new white goods always had second hand from relatives so my experience of Whirlpoll isnt good. I work in a hair salon and overheard a client complaining of the same thing - oven door shattering. I asked him if it was a Whirlpool oven and was he in a Barratt house and he said he was - he said he complained to Whirlpool who he said practically laughed at him down the phone. I contacted the Barratts show home on my estate and they said they had no complaints about the appliances fitted in the houses. I will be taking this further with trading standards as it is not just about the door shattering but the potential injury this fault can cause. The amount of postings I have seen on the web says to me that their is definitley something faulty about the oven doors and Whirlpool/Barratt are just hoping to fob people off. caroline jan 2012
I moved into a new Barrats house in April 2008 and it was fitted with whirlpool appliances, I am already on my second washer/dryer and have had the repair man out twice to this one.
However this complaint isnt about the washer but about the oven – the oven door just spontaneously shattered like a car windscreen and we were lucky that my children weren’t injured. I have been on various forums and have read about other people this has happened to. I have contacted Whirlpool and they just sent me a general letter stating that there is no manufacturing or design fault and that it was dangerous to continue to use it and we should contact them to organise an engineer at a cost of £80 and the replacement glass at £140. I have never before had brand new white goods always had second hand from relatives so my experience of Whirlpoll isnt good.
I work in a hair salon and overheard a client complaining of the same thing – oven door shattering. I asked him if it was a Whirlpool oven and was he in a Barratt house and he said he was – he said he complained to Whirlpool who he said practically laughed at him down the phone. I contacted the Barratts show home on my estate and they said they had no complaints about the appliances fitted in the
houses. I will be taking this further with trading standards as it is not just about the door shattering but the potential injury this fault can cause. The amount of postings I have seen on the web says to me that their is definitley something faulty about the oven doors and Whirlpool/Barratt are just hoping to fob people off.
caroline jan 2012
0 replies Hi, I purchased a Samsung LCD freeview TV in July 2006 and paid £600, which to me was and still is a lot of money. November 2011 to freeview on the TV stopped working. I bought the Tv from Freemans catalogue. I have been having a running battle with them. I just want someone to confirm what is a reasonable lenght of time for a TV to last. To me £600 for 5 years of viewing is NOT reasonable or value for money. Freemans want to offer me a partial refund of £90. Can someone just tell me what is reasonable. Thanks
Hi, I purchased a Samsung LCD freeview TV in July 2006 and paid £600, which to me was and still is a lot of money. November 2011 to freeview on the TV stopped working. I bought the Tv from Freemans catalogue. I have been having a running battle with them. I just want someone to confirm what is a reasonable lenght of time for a TV to last. To me £600 for 5 years of viewing is NOT reasonable or value for money. Freemans want to offer me a partial refund of £90. Can someone just tell me what is reasonable.
Thanks
0 replies Mr ALLEYNE: The problem is that what is reasonable is subjective. There are no acknowledged acceptable lengths of time for any product. When something only lasts 2 or 3 years it's a little more clear cut but after that it gets less clear. However, the Sale of Goods Act specifically qualifies the phrase that a product should last a reasonable time by saying "reasonable", is that (which) a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory. My experience is with white goods so I don't know how long TV's are generally expected to last. It could be that as a product that advances technologically at considerably greater rates than white goods a TV at 5 years is considered relatively old. Alternatively it could be they normally would be expected to last 10 years or more. As you've had it 5 years though you need to also bear in mind that the 5 years would be knocked off any potential compensation so for example if it was accepted they should last at least 10 years you have had half of that so would get 50% of the cost of a new one.
Mr ALLEYNE: The problem is that what is reasonable is subjective. There are no acknowledged acceptable lengths of time for any product. When something only lasts 2 or 3 years it’s a little more clear cut but after that it gets less clear.
However, the Sale of Goods Act specifically qualifies the phrase that a product should last a reasonable time by saying “reasonable”, is that (which) a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory.
My experience is with white goods so I don’t know how long TV’s are generally expected to last. It could be that as a product that advances technologically at considerably greater rates than white goods a TV at 5 years is considered relatively old. Alternatively it could be they normally would be expected to last 10 years or more. As you’ve had it 5 years though you need to also bear in mind that the 5 years would be knocked off any potential compensation so for example if it was accepted they should last at least 10 years you have had half of that so would get 50% of the cost of a new one.
0 replies Hello, I purchased a double memory foam mattress with Maxicool cover, on 24th January 2011 online from TJHughes, it arrived 28th January, we unwrapped it 29th, discovered a hole in the cover. It was a snag that had been pulled and was incorporated in the zip. I immediately photographed the hole and telephoned & e-mailed the manufacturer (Sleepdesign who give a guarantee, what a joke) supplier (TJHughes), was told to continue to use return faulty cover, which we did. TJHughes reimbursed the postage. The manufacturers sent a kingsize replacement (for a laugh presumably) back, which we returned, then TGHughes went into administation. Sleepdesign & TJHughes refused to speak or communicate with us any further.Consquently we still have no cover for the mattress and are still trying to get a partial refund from the credit card company.
Hello, I purchased a double memory foam mattress with Maxicool cover, on 24th January 2011 online from TJHughes, it arrived 28th January, we unwrapped it 29th, discovered a hole in the cover. It was a snag that had been pulled and was incorporated in the zip. I immediately photographed the hole and telephoned & e-mailed the manufacturer (Sleepdesign who give a guarantee, what a joke) supplier (TJHughes), was told to continue to use return faulty cover, which we did.
TJHughes reimbursed the postage. The manufacturers sent a kingsize replacement (for a laugh presumably) back, which we returned, then TGHughes went into administation. Sleepdesign & TJHughes refused to speak or communicate with us any further.Consquently we still have no cover for the mattress and are still trying to get a partial refund from the credit card company.
0 replies Hi all...Happy New Years and all that! :) Final update on my case. The money for the washing machine turned up the week before Christmas with a lovely "With Compliments" slip :) So in the new year Ill make contact with the local paper and see if they are interested in a "human interest" story as well as get a hold of Which magazine and see if they are interested. I still believe that Barratts has missed a trick here and only ended up quadrupling their costs and had they just entered in to this in the spirit of looking after a valued customer not only would they have saved them selves several hundred pounds in a payout BUT also saved themselves several or tens of thousands pounds in staff time wasted in this...and then there is the cost of lost reputation. Sure, people dont have a lot of good things to say for Barrats and this case has only reinforced that point. Either way, this story will get out in to the wild! Regards Mailman
Hi all…Happy New Years and all that! :)
Final update on my case. The money for the washing machine turned up the week before Christmas with a lovely “With Compliments” slip :)
So in the new year Ill make contact with the local paper and see if they are interested in a “human interest” story as well as get a hold of Which magazine and see if they are interested.
I still believe that Barratts has missed a trick here and only ended up quadrupling their costs and had they just entered in to this in the spirit of looking after a valued customer not only would they have saved them selves several hundred pounds in a payout BUT also saved themselves several or tens of thousands pounds in staff time wasted in this…and then there is the cost of lost reputation. Sure, people dont have a lot of good things to say for Barrats and this case has only reinforced that point.
Either way, this story will get out in to the wild!
Regards
Mailman
0 replies Pete: Normally you would should go to the manufacturer or their agent first using the guarantee as you need to know exactly what is wrong before you can decide if you have a justified complaint or not. It could be something relatively minor, which is not necessarily a breach of the Sale of goods Act. Products do not have to be totally free from breakdowns especially after a few years, they just have to be of merchantable quality, be free from inherent faults and last a reasonable time. If you then feel you have a complaint then legally it is the retailer who is responsible but manufacturers can sometimes take it upon themselves to keep a customer satisfied. Your particular case is unusual if you have to send it off to another country. I've never heard of that, which seems a bit unreasonable.
Pete: Normally you would should go to the manufacturer or their agent first using the guarantee as you need to know exactly what is wrong before you can decide if you have a justified complaint or not. It could be something relatively minor, which is not necessarily a breach of the Sale of goods Act.
Products do not have to be totally free from breakdowns especially after a few years, they just have to be of merchantable quality, be free from inherent faults and last a reasonable time. If you then feel you have a complaint then legally it is the retailer who is responsible but manufacturers can sometimes take it upon themselves to keep a customer satisfied.
Your particular case is unusual if you have to send it off to another country. I’ve never heard of that, which seems a bit unreasonable.
0 replies Hi I have a general question. If I buy a product with a 3 year manufacturers warranty and the product just stops working after 2 years, should I be looking to the retailer or the manufacturer to handle the repair/replacement of this product? I believe it should be the retailers responsibility to deal with me, but my friends say I should go directly to the manufacturer. The main issue with this is the manufacturers require the item to be sent to Holland whereas the retailer is local. Any advise would be appreciated.
Hi
I have a general question. If I buy a product with a 3 year manufacturers warranty and the product just stops working after 2 years, should I be looking to the retailer or the manufacturer to handle the repair/replacement of this product?
I believe it should be the retailers responsibility to deal with me, but my friends say I should go directly to the manufacturer. The main issue with this is the manufacturers require the item to be sent to Holland whereas the retailer is local.
Any advise would be appreciated.
0 replies Mr Dobalina: .. but think of all the money they save by adopting the attitude. I bet for every one like you there are 100, or anything up to 1000 people who just give up. They must be "saving" many thousands of pounds, with national retailers possibly saving hundreds of thousands of pounds with their stubborn attitude. However, they clearly aren't taking into account the clearly much larger sum possibly running into millions that they are losing when people, and their friends and family never buy from them again.
Mr Dobalina: .. but think of all the money they save by adopting the attitude. I bet for every one like you there are 100, or anything up to 1000 people who just give up. They must be “saving” many thousands of pounds, with national retailers possibly saving hundreds of thousands of pounds with their stubborn attitude. However, they clearly aren’t taking into account the clearly much larger sum possibly running into millions that they are losing when people, and their friends and family never buy from them again.
0 replies BIG congratulations !! I know it's been a long time coming as I've been following the story but it's always tremendous to hear of somebody beating the 'big boys' and getting what's due to them. Well done and cheers for the update. Happy Christmas !!
BIG congratulations !! I know it’s been a long time coming as I’ve been following the story but it’s always tremendous to hear of somebody beating the ‘big boys’ and getting what’s due to them.
Well done and cheers for the update. Happy Christmas !!
0 replies Hi all, Im back from my hearing, to cut a long story short, I won! Was awarded the full amount of my claim (which covered a new washing machine, the cost of all the laundry we had to do at the next towns laundromat and mileage, as well as my filing fee's and travelling expenses). I did ask if I could claim for the lost days work but got shot down...oh well, if you dont ask you will never know! :) Barratts didnt even turn up! The judge did say though that Barratts may ask for the verdict to be set aside if they have good reason NOT to have turned up but otherwise Ill get a copy of the verdict in the next couple of days. So we shall see...hopefully Ill get a cheque from them within the next what ever days they have! BTW, Ill post a much more detailed account when I get the verdict. Ill let the kids know that christmas is back on when they get home tonight :) Regards Bob
Hi all,
Im back from my hearing, to cut a long story short, I won!
Was awarded the full amount of my claim (which covered a new washing machine, the cost of all the laundry we had to do at the next towns laundromat and mileage, as well as my filing fee’s and travelling expenses). I did ask if I could claim for the lost days work but got shot down…oh well, if you dont ask you will never know! :)
Barratts didnt even turn up! The judge did say though that Barratts may ask for the verdict to be set aside if they have good reason NOT to have turned up but otherwise Ill get a copy of the verdict in the next couple of days. So we shall see…hopefully Ill get a cheque from them within the next what ever days they have!
BTW, Ill post a much more detailed account when I get the verdict.
Ill let the kids know that christmas is back on when they get home tonight :)
Regards
Bob
0 replies OK, its show time on Wednesday. Ill let you all know how things go as soon as possible. Just out of interest, I was speaking with our neighbours and their washing machine (same as ours) also died earlier in the year, along with their oven AND friends of theirs in another Barratts home on our street ALSO had their washing machine (different make) die on them! So just in our street without doing any work what so ever there are three houses in our street that had Barratts provided whitegoods all have had issues. Im picking that should a journalist, looking for a story, start door knocking that he is going to find a lot more issues to write about! Naturally I shall be raising this point tomorrow! :) Regards Bob
OK, its show time on Wednesday. Ill let you all know how things go as soon as possible.
Just out of interest, I was speaking with our neighbours and their washing machine (same as ours) also died earlier in the year, along with their oven AND friends of theirs in another Barratts home on our street ALSO had their washing machine (different make) die on them!
So just in our street without doing any work what so ever there are three houses in our street that had Barratts provided whitegoods all have had issues. Im picking that should a journalist, looking for a story, start door knocking that he is going to find a lot more issues to write about!
Naturally I shall be raising this point tomorrow! :)
Regards
Bob
0 replies I've heard the stats being quoted several times at trade meetings and presentations. I've not seen an official report stating it but presumably the figure came from some report somewhere. It was used in the context of how they aren't lasting very long these days.
I’ve heard the stats being quoted several times at trade meetings and presentations. I’ve not seen an official report stating it but presumably the figure came from some report somewhere. It was used in the context of how they aren’t lasting very long these days.
0 replies Hello Mr Washerhelp, Can you tell me where you got the statistic from that says washing machines on average last 7 years? Also, I had a look at the extended warranty from Whirlpool. First up it costs over £100 for the two year warranty and then it excludes the delivery and installation costs! Anyway Im just getting all my ducks in order before our hearing next Wednesday morning. Regards Mailman
Hello Mr Washerhelp,
Can you tell me where you got the statistic from that says washing machines on average last 7 years?
Also, I had a look at the extended warranty from Whirlpool. First up it costs over £100 for the two year warranty and then it excludes the delivery and installation costs!
Anyway Im just getting all my ducks in order before our hearing next Wednesday morning.
Regards
Mailman
0 replies Me again , i know this is not a white goods but just after reading about the person with the acer laptop i have a Sony vaio and paid good 600 for it , its not hat you would say a cheap brand , and is just over the 2 year warranty that Sony supposedly gives , i actually had it repaired just couple of months after having it was making loud noise like fan over working now this was done free as was in with there warranty but recently last couple months my monitor has been distorted at bottom and covers whole task bar i cannot see anything at bottom of my screen. now company i bought it from saying nothing they can do because out warranty fobbed me with Sony which you can only talk to some one on Sony site by entering the model number on laptop when i enter it on the phone it just says automated sorry we cant help bye , cost the repair is needing a new screen which will cost 120 how do i go about getting through to Sony or getting my money , as i don't think this is fair time for needing fixed after just over 2 yrs for the cost and fact it already been repaired after few months buying thanks if you could help any one
Me again , i know this is not a white goods but just after reading about the person with the acer laptop
i have a Sony vaio and paid good 600 for it , its not hat you would say a cheap brand , and is just over the 2 year warranty that Sony supposedly gives ,
i actually had it repaired just couple of months after having it was making loud noise like fan over working now this was done free as was in with there warranty
but recently last couple months my monitor has been distorted at bottom and covers whole task bar i cannot see anything at bottom of my screen.
now company i bought it from saying nothing they can do because out warranty fobbed me with Sony which you can only talk to some one on Sony site by entering the model number on laptop when i enter it on the phone it just says automated sorry we cant help bye ,
cost the repair is needing a new screen which will cost 120 how do i go about getting through to Sony or getting my money , as i don’t think this is fair time for needing fixed after just over 2 yrs for the cost and fact it already been repaired after few months buying
thanks if you could help any one
0 replies I bought a beko fridge freezer which is now just few weeks outwith the supposedly 1 year warranty that you get with the product and when called at first said there was nothing they can do , until i gave them the consumer rights and sales of good acts, they ended up saying they will send out a repairman to fix it out of good will gesture, just awaiting the phone call for a date , they said within 48 hours , As i also told them that the fridge i had before buying this was a beko and it had the same problem with it and was not happy that after only just over year it has happened to this freezer as well the problem is the freezer isn't freezing properly , what could this be that is wrong with it. my last beko fridge freezer was about 4 years old and at the time didn't know about all this info and put it down to ah well i got it on good price and lasted 4year not bad was about 200 got on sale , but at right price may of expected longer out of it
I bought a beko fridge freezer which is now just few weeks outwith the supposedly 1 year warranty that you get with the product and when called at first said there was nothing they can do , until i gave them the consumer rights and sales of good acts,
they ended up saying they will send out a repairman to fix it out of good will gesture, just awaiting the phone call for a date , they said within 48 hours ,
As i also told them that the fridge i had before buying this was a beko and it had the same problem with it and was not happy that after only just over year it has happened to this freezer as well the problem is the freezer isn’t freezing properly , what could this be that is wrong with it.
my last beko fridge freezer was about 4 years old and at the time didn’t know about all this info and put it down to ah well i got it on good price and lasted 4year not bad was about 200 got on sale ,
but at right price may of expected longer out of it
0 replies Hi, My issue isn't with a white goods item, but a computer component, namely the graphics card, (GPU). This was bought for me approximately 2.5 years ago, by my then girlfriend, (we haven't been together for almost 2 years now). I don't know where it was purchased from, but at it cost around the £350 mark when she bought it. In the time I've owned this GPU, I haven't overclocked it and have, (for the most part), used an advanced, aftermarket cooler on it, (namely the Arctic Cooling Accelero). In laymans terms, it hasn't been under serious stress from heat at any point in its life. I am a casual gamer, spending probably around 2-3 hours maximum a day on my pc. For anyone that knows, this was THE fastest graphics card of its day, not some bargain basement rubbish, but high end, top quality stuff, and the price justified that. My question is this - as I don't know who the retailer was, is it possible I can have the actual manufacturer repair or replace with a GPU from their current line up, (of equal quality/performance)? I don't have the reciept, but I still have the box and all the sundries that were included, except the original heatsink and fan, (I threw those away as soon as the after market item was fitted). I have Googled for issues with these cards, and I wouldn't say that it's "common" for these cards to suddenly die like this, BUT, the manufacturer, (XFX), do have a "lifetime warranty" in the USA and Canada, (under strict conditions so I understand), but not here in the UK. Is there any way I can enforce that here? ;-) Also, is it fair for them to say that any such warranties are applicable ONLY while the graphics card is in it's "lifetime", ie, whilst in production, considering the fact that graphics cards are probably THE most frequently updated/shortest "lifetime" of any PC component? I hope you could help me resolve this issue with the result I'm looking for - repair/replace. I think the price of this card justifies some recompense, especially as it's not being driven like a dog all its life and that it was touted as the "Rolls Royce" so to speak when it was brand new. Just as a last note, the current highend model retails for around the £460 mark. I don't see why I should pay that kind of money to get to where I was a couple of days ago, and quite happy as well :( Many thanks, Steve.
Hi,
My issue isn’t with a white goods item, but a computer component, namely the graphics card, (GPU). This was bought for me approximately 2.5 years ago, by my then girlfriend, (we haven’t been together for almost 2 years now).
I don’t know where it was purchased from, but at it cost around the £350 mark when she bought it. In the time I’ve owned this GPU, I haven’t overclocked it and have, (for the most part), used an advanced, aftermarket cooler on it, (namely the Arctic Cooling Accelero). In laymans terms, it hasn’t been under serious stress from heat at any point in its life. I am a casual gamer, spending probably around 2-3 hours maximum a day on my pc.
For anyone that knows, this was THE fastest graphics card of its day, not some bargain basement rubbish, but high end, top quality stuff, and the price justified that.
My question is this – as I don’t know who the retailer was, is it possible I can have the actual manufacturer repair or replace with a GPU from their current line up, (of equal quality/performance)? I don’t have the reciept, but I still have the box and all the sundries that were included, except the original heatsink and fan, (I threw those away as soon as the after market item was fitted).
I have Googled for issues with these cards, and I wouldn’t say that it’s “common” for these cards to suddenly die like this, BUT, the manufacturer, (XFX), do have a “lifetime warranty” in the USA and Canada, (under strict conditions so I understand), but not here in the UK. Is there any way I can enforce that here? ;-)
Also, is it fair for them to say that any such warranties are applicable ONLY while the graphics card is in it’s “lifetime”, ie, whilst in production, considering the fact that graphics cards are probably THE most frequently updated/shortest “lifetime” of any PC component?
I hope you could help me resolve this issue with the result I’m looking for – repair/replace. I think the price of this card justifies some recompense, especially as it’s not being driven like a dog all its life and that it was touted as the “Rolls Royce” so to speak when it was brand new. Just as a last note, the current highend model retails for around the £460 mark. I don’t see why I should pay that kind of money to get to where I was a couple of days ago, and quite happy as well :(
Many thanks, Steve.
0 replies Hi - firstly what a great resource this is, hopefully manufacturers will start producing goods that last longer than 366 days. :-) I have an interesting one that I haven't seen covered here. I had a brand new Hotpoint dishwasher installed in Nov 2009. 18 months later it broke, failed pump - common fault by the sounds of it. Out of warranty, and somewhat in desperation, I foolishly paid £106 for Hotpoint to fix it. They replaced the pump - the engineer even said it was a common issue since the parts aren't great quality. 6 months later (so the dishwasher is now 2 years old) and the same part would appear to have failed again. I called Hotpoint (Indesit) and they said the part only came with a 3 month warranty so I'd have to pay another £100+ for them to come out and repair it again. This, in my view, is shocking. Now, if I go back to the retailer and quote the SOGA are they not within their rights to say "Well, you paid Hotpoint to repair it - you'll have to take it up with them." ? I have to say I do feel sorry for the retailer in these situations, however hopefully it will encourage them to stock brands that don't break within 18 months. I asked Hotpoint if they thought it was acceptable for a brand new dishwasher to last 18 months before breaking and they said "Yes". Oh dear. Thoughts appreciated! Andy
Hi – firstly what a great resource this is, hopefully manufacturers will start producing goods that last longer than 366 days. :-)
I have an interesting one that I haven’t seen covered here. I had a brand new Hotpoint dishwasher installed in Nov 2009. 18 months later it broke, failed pump – common fault by the sounds of it. Out of warranty, and somewhat in desperation, I foolishly paid £106 for Hotpoint to fix it. They replaced the pump – the engineer even said it was a common issue since the parts aren’t great quality.
6 months later (so the dishwasher is now 2 years old) and the same part would appear to have failed again. I called Hotpoint (Indesit) and they said the part only came with a 3 month warranty so I’d have to pay another £100+ for them to come out and repair it again. This, in my view, is shocking.
Now, if I go back to the retailer and quote the SOGA are they not within their rights to say “Well, you paid Hotpoint to repair it – you’ll have to take it up with them.” ?
I have to say I do feel sorry for the retailer in these situations, however hopefully it will encourage them to stock brands that don’t break within 18 months. I asked Hotpoint if they thought it was acceptable for a brand new dishwasher to last 18 months before breaking and they said “Yes”. Oh dear.
Thoughts appreciated!
Andy
0 replies Mr Dobalina: Washing machines apparently only last on average 7 years these days but that's not the same as saying they should last 7 years - or even that 7 years is acceptable. How long they should last depends on how much it cost and how it's been used so there's no strict formula. The only official thing we have is the Sales of Goods Act stating they should last a reasonable time, which as we all know is pretty subjective. Which? and other consumer groups usually say extended warranties aren't worth bothering with.
Mr Dobalina: Washing machines apparently only last on average 7 years these days but that’s not the same as saying they should last 7 years – or even that 7 years is acceptable. How long they should last depends on how much it cost and how it’s been used so there’s no strict formula. The only official thing we have is the Sales of Goods Act stating they should last a reasonable time, which as we all know is pretty subjective.
Which? and other consumer groups usually say extended warranties aren’t worth bothering with.
0 replies Update Number xxxxx I got the allocation questioneer a while ago, duly completed and sent it back and asked for the hearing to be moved to my local court, which is only a mile down the road. On Saturday just gone we got a letter from the Cambridge Court (which isnt our local court) advising that the hearing had been set down for the 7th of November and that a FURTHER fee of £55 had to be paid by the 9th of November! Then on Monday we got another letter saying the court date is now the 7th of December. I rung them up to ask why this cant be heard at my local court and they said I could fill the form in, pay £45 and then the judge would consider moving it. I then rung back a second time to question this only to be told my town doesnt have a district court anymore and the judge probably moved it to the closest one to us! So lucky I didnt waste £45 for nothing! I was surprised that there was a further fee payable though, after having already paid the fee when we lodged the claim in the first place! So...no wonder people give up. Nothing is simple, straight forward or easy in this country! BTW Mr Washerhelp, do you have any links to reports etc that say whiteware goods should last up to 7 years before total failure and copies of reports that say the extended warranties arent worth the paper they are written on? It would be good to see these and perhaps send copies to Barratts to put the sh1ts up them! Regards Bob BTW, the letter from the court only gave us 8 days to pay the further 55!
Update Number xxxxx
I got the allocation questioneer a while ago, duly completed and sent it back and asked for the hearing to be moved to my local court, which is only a mile down the road.
On Saturday just gone we got a letter from the Cambridge Court (which isnt our local court) advising that the hearing had been set down for the 7th of November and that a FURTHER fee of £55 had to be paid by the 9th of November! Then on Monday we got another letter saying the court date is now the 7th of December. I rung them up to ask why this cant be heard at my local court and they said I could fill the form in, pay £45 and then the judge would consider moving it. I then rung back a second time to question this only to be told my town doesnt have a district court anymore and the judge probably moved it to the closest one to us! So lucky I didnt waste £45 for nothing!
I was surprised that there was a further fee payable though, after having already paid the fee when we lodged the claim in the first place!
So…no wonder people give up. Nothing is simple, straight forward or easy in this country!
BTW Mr Washerhelp, do you have any links to reports etc that say whiteware goods should last up to 7 years before total failure and copies of reports that say the extended warranties arent worth the paper they are written on? It would be good to see these and perhaps send copies to Barratts to put the sh1ts up them!
Regards
Bob
BTW, the letter from the court only gave us 8 days to pay the further 55!
0 replies Thanks for the advice. I went directly to the CEO of the retailer and within 2 hours I received a full refund. They are collecting the faulty machine this week. I am a very happy customer finally. Carly
Thanks for the advice. I went directly to the CEO of the retailer and within 2 hours I received a full refund. They are collecting the faulty machine this week.
I am a very happy customer finally.
Carly
0 replies Carly: Under the Sale of Goods Act if a product breaks down under 6 months it is deemed to have been faulty when sold. It was sold with an inherent fault. Therefore you should be entitled to a refund or compensation. It's no surprised Hoover / Candy have rejected your refund request as it's only the retailer you bought it from that is responsible. I would try pressing for a replacement saying it was sold with an inherent fault and your previous experience with the same brand has made you lose confidence in them. Unfortunately many of the national retailers will not comply, and even scoff at such an outrageous request. You need to take consumer advice from Citizens Advice or similar.
Carly: Under the Sale of Goods Act if a product breaks down under 6 months it is deemed to have been faulty when sold. It was sold with an inherent fault. Therefore you should be entitled to a refund or compensation. It’s no surprised Hoover / Candy have rejected your refund request as it’s only the retailer you bought it from that is responsible. I would try pressing for a replacement saying it was sold with an inherent fault and your previous experience with the same brand has made you lose confidence in them. Unfortunately many of the national retailers will not comply, and even scoff at such an outrageous request. You need to take consumer advice from Citizens Advice or similar.
0 replies Sue: Extended warranties are generally accepted in the consumer advice world to be not worth taking out for most people. One of the problems with extended warranties is that you are a captive customer, you can't often go elsewhere, so service is often slower. Under the Sale of Goods Act they have to fix your appliance within a reasonable time. No one could seriously argue that waiting 3 weeks before even looking at a fridge, and even then not fixing it, is reasonable. Unfortunately I can pretty much bet you won't get anywhere asking for a refund. Have a look to see if there are any promises on the extended warranty about how quick they promise to fix things. You'll probably have to start being a nuisance to get them moving.
Sue: Extended warranties are generally accepted in the consumer advice world to be not worth taking out for most people. One of the problems with extended warranties is that you are a captive customer, you can’t often go elsewhere, so service is often slower. Under the Sale of Goods Act they have to fix your appliance within a reasonable time. No one could seriously argue that waiting 3 weeks before even looking at a fridge, and even then not fixing it, is reasonable. Unfortunately I can pretty much bet you won’t get anywhere asking for a refund. Have a look to see if there are any promises on the extended warranty about how quick they promise to fix things. You’ll probably have to start being a nuisance to get them moving.
0 replies I purchased a Beko Fridge/Freezer in 2008. From Comet stores in Crewe Cheshire. 3 weeks ago it started to defrost (freezer) and the fridge was over 10c. The Motor just refused to switch off, and the electric meter began to sizzle with the cost of continuous working. After phoning Comets new help line number. I was told the earliest a man could come out to me was 3 weeks. and they diagnosed on the phone a timer switch. We emptied the whole thing out, and all the food bought 2 days before was binned. Today the engineer came, His lap top was broken so he couldn't look up the part we needed. And he diagnosed the compressor has broken; He left telling me he would phone later. He has just phoned to say he has contacted head office, and they will now phone me in the next few days to tell me when they can come and look at the freezer again. We took out an extended warranty with the purchase, but to me it does not seem to be worth the paper it was printed on. Does anyone think I am entitled to an exchange on this appliance. Or do I just sit and wait and wait. or trust to Comet's engineers when they do get around to coming out again.
I purchased a Beko Fridge/Freezer in 2008. From Comet stores in Crewe Cheshire. 3 weeks ago it started to defrost (freezer) and the fridge was over 10c. The Motor just refused to switch off, and the electric meter began to sizzle with the cost of continuous working.
After phoning Comets new help line number. I was told the earliest a man could come out to me was 3 weeks. and they diagnosed on the phone a timer switch. We emptied the whole thing out, and all the food bought 2 days before was binned.
Today the engineer came, His lap top was broken so he couldn’t look up the part we needed. And he diagnosed the compressor has broken; He left telling me he would phone later.
He has just phoned to say he has contacted head office, and they will now phone me in the next few days to tell me when they can come and look at the freezer again.
We took out an extended warranty with the purchase, but to me it does not seem to be worth the paper it was printed on. Does anyone think I am entitled to an exchange on this appliance. Or do I just sit and wait and wait. or trust to Comet’s engineers when they do get around to coming out again.
0 replies Hi I wonder if you could help with my problem of trying to get a refund from Hoovercandy. I purchased a washer dryer in Mar 2010, shortly after it became very noisy and several faults occurred. 13 months later Hoovercandy finally sent me a replacement, (I originally purchased thorugh NEXT). The replacement after 4 and a half months has started to go wrong again. I waitied 6 days for a repair man, who apparantley fixed the door fault. The following day it went from a washing settng to drying setting (without me knowing) ruining a load of washing, as the heat setting was extermely high and it clearly had items of clothing in that I would not normally dry in the dryer. I have contacted Hoovercandy and Next electric by phone and letter stating the Sale of Goods and Services Act and requesting a refund. Hoover Candy have written back with a standard letter refusing my request and offering a repair only. Is there any advice you can give to me, I feel as it is only 5 months old I have the right to request a refund?? I do not want a repair or further replacement as I have lost faith in the product. Thanks Carly
Hi I wonder if you could help with my problem of trying to get a refund from Hoovercandy.
I purchased a washer dryer in Mar 2010, shortly after it became very noisy and several faults occurred. 13 months later Hoovercandy finally sent me a replacement, (I originally purchased thorugh NEXT). The replacement after 4 and a half months has started to go wrong again. I waitied 6 days for a repair man, who apparantley fixed the door fault. The following day it went from a washing settng to drying setting (without me knowing) ruining a load of washing, as the heat setting was extermely high and it clearly had items of clothing in that I would not normally dry in the dryer. I have contacted Hoovercandy and Next electric by phone and letter stating the Sale of Goods and Services Act and requesting a refund. Hoover Candy have written back with a standard letter refusing my request and offering a repair only.
Is there any advice you can give to me, I feel as it is only 5 months old I have the right to request a refund?? I do not want a repair or further replacement as I have lost faith in the product.
Thanks
Carly
0 replies Hello Mr Dobaline: Your case is dragging on for ages and shows why most people give up. Thanks for your continued update and please continue to update us. Even if it ultimately fails your experience will still be very useful to others.
Hello Mr Dobaline: Your case is dragging on for ages and shows why most people give up. Thanks for your continued update and please continue to update us. Even if it ultimately fails your experience will still be very useful to others.
0 replies Barratts have failed their defence, and its the same as before...2 years 3 months, according to them, is more than acceptable as being the expected life of the washing machine. Ive since filled out the paper work and sent back so now all that remains is for the court hearing to be set. Regards Mailman
Barratts have failed their defence, and its the same as before…2 years 3 months, according to them, is more than acceptable as being the expected life of the washing machine.
Ive since filled out the paper work and sent back so now all that remains is for the court hearing to be set.
Regards
Mailman
0 replies That's really useful and I have my machine running a hot wash as I type..........thanks for that information !! I have the touch of black "stuff" on the rubber and as the article says I'm one of those guilty of always running it at 40 degrees as a rule. It's managed to get on clothes before and it's oily and can ruin stuff so one hot wash a month is well worth doing.
That’s really useful and I have my machine running a hot wash as I type……….thanks for that information !! I have the touch of black “stuff” on the rubber and as the article says I’m one of those guilty of always running it at 40 degrees as a rule. It’s managed to get on clothes before and it’s oily and can ruin stuff so one hot wash a month is well worth doing.
0 replies Elaine Alexander : It isn't a design fault in most washing machines. It's more of an undesirable problem caused by modern detergents lacking some previously used chemicals that were banned for environmental reasons combined with the constant use of low temperature washes as well as liquid detergent, which contains no bleaching agents Many people (most probably the majority) don't have a problem with it (myself included) so it's caused by something unique to the individual sufferers. It's all explained in this article - Washing machine smells - causes of grease, slime and black mould inside washing machines
Elaine Alexander : It isn’t a design fault in most washing machines. It’s more of an undesirable problem caused by modern detergents lacking some previously used chemicals that were banned for environmental reasons combined with the constant use of low temperature washes as well as liquid detergent, which contains no bleaching agents
Many people (most probably the majority) don’t have a problem with it (myself included) so it’s caused by something unique to the individual sufferers. It’s all explained in this article – Washing machine smells – causes of grease, slime and black mould inside washing machines
0 replies Thanks for the update Mr Dobalina: Your case sounds like a perfect example of one which should be fought and I wish you luck. Win or lose we need to know as your experience can help others. Unfortunately the average life of a washing machine is now only around 7 years because they are being made less and less repairable by both design and prohibitive spares costs. However, even by that pathetic standard you've been short-changed.
Thanks for the update Mr Dobalina: Your case sounds like a perfect example of one which should be fought and I wish you luck. Win or lose we need to know as your experience can help others.
Unfortunately the average life of a washing machine is now only around 7 years because they are being made less and less repairable by both design and prohibitive spares costs. However, even by that pathetic standard you’ve been short-changed.
0 replies Hi guys, Here is an update on my claim against Barratt Homes. Basically they told us to f8ck off so we have sinced filed a claim with the small claims court for the cost of the replacement washing machine we purchased as well as the costs of the multiple trips to the closest laundrette we had to us. Additionally, should we be successfully Ill also try my luck and ask the Judge if I can claim for the lost day of work for myself and my wife! :) Secondly, I have included my dish washer in the claim BUT will use that as a bargaining chip. Should Barratts claim the damage was from fair wear and tear then I will agree with them and ask for the dish washer to be removed, as I agree that buttons or knobs or washers falling off would be expected as fair wear and tear as that wear and tear hasnt rendered the entire unit unusable. However the same cannot be said for the washing machine as the damage HAS rendered the entire unit unusable! They may argue the item was used outside of its design specifications, but the counter argument would be that the unit was provided with a four bedroom family home on the expectation that a family would be using it. If the washing machine was not to be used by a family then I guess that makes the washing machine unfit for use! :) Anyway, I should hear back from the court with in the next week or so as to whether Barratts intend to defend the case! I also checked with the NHB people and they had a report out from 2007 that stated the average life expectancy for a washing machine was something like 14 years! Just need to track this report down so I can take it with me to the small claims hearing! Boom! Regards Mailman
Hi guys,
Here is an update on my claim against Barratt Homes.
Basically they told us to f8ck off so we have sinced filed a claim with the small claims court for the cost of the replacement washing machine we purchased as well as the costs of the multiple trips to the closest laundrette we had to us.
Additionally, should we be successfully Ill also try my luck and ask the Judge if I can claim for the lost day of work for myself and my wife! :)
Secondly, I have included my dish washer in the claim BUT will use that as a bargaining chip. Should Barratts claim the damage was from fair wear and tear then I will agree with them and ask for the dish washer to be removed, as I agree that buttons or knobs or washers falling off would be expected as fair wear and tear as that wear and tear hasnt rendered the entire unit unusable. However the same cannot be said for the washing machine as the damage HAS rendered the entire unit unusable!
They may argue the item was used outside of its design specifications, but the counter argument would be that the unit was provided with a four bedroom family home on the expectation that a family would be using it. If the washing machine was not to be used by a family then I guess that makes the washing machine unfit for use! :)
Anyway, I should hear back from the court with in the next week or so as to whether Barratts intend to defend the case!
I also checked with the NHB people and they had a report out from 2007 that stated the average life expectancy for a washing machine was something like 14 years! Just need to track this report down so I can take it with me to the small claims hearing!
Boom!
Regards
Mailman
0 replies I have a Hotpoint Ultima WMD960P washing machine purchased in late December 2009. The rubber seal is decidedly manky - black gloop build up in the folds of the rubber. Rang and reported the problem - but told it is out of its 1 year warranty. I pointed out that the machine was less than 2 years old, and I had nevery had such a problem with previous Hotpoint washers. Operator said manufacturer was aware of the problem. She told this is a new fault, caused by detergents being made stronger, etc, and to the cold fill of machines. She said I could buy a crystal cleaner and use monthly, at a cost of £24.99 for a 2 year supply. The cost of replacing the dodgy rubber seal is £104.99 for an engineer to come out and replace it. In other words, the manufacturer knows there is a problem but has apparently not been able to resolve it. I keep my machine clean, flushing it out regularly. Now being told it must be done on a HOT 90 degree cycle. So much for economy! I ought this machine through the Benefits Scheme of my former employer (Hotpoint being part of the group). The operator on the phone told me it is a maintenance fault, not a manufacturers fault! Any idea where I stand on this one?
I have a Hotpoint Ultima WMD960P washing machine purchased in late December 2009. The rubber seal is decidedly manky – black gloop build up in the folds of the rubber. Rang and reported the problem – but told it is out of its 1 year warranty. I pointed out that the machine was less than 2 years old, and I had nevery had such a problem with previous Hotpoint washers. Operator said manufacturer was aware of the problem. She told this is a new fault, caused by detergents being made stronger, etc, and to the cold fill of machines. She said I could buy a crystal cleaner and use monthly, at a cost of £24.99 for a 2 year supply. The cost of replacing the dodgy rubber seal is £104.99 for an engineer to come out and replace it. In other words, the manufacturer knows there is a problem but has apparently not been able to resolve it. I keep my machine clean, flushing it out regularly. Now being told it must be done on a HOT 90 degree cycle. So much for economy! I ought this machine through the Benefits Scheme of my former employer (Hotpoint being part of the group). The operator on the phone told me it is a maintenance fault, not a manufacturers fault! Any idea where I stand on this one?
0 replies You don't need a receipt, only some proof of purchase such as a credit or bank card statement, though not having a receipt further complicates an already difficult matter. If the guarantee ran out 4 months ago the retailer and manufacturer are unlikely to help. They will both tell you that it is now out of guarantee and all repairs are chargeable. If you believe the appliance has not lasted a reasonable time you can pursue the retailer using the Sale of Good Act but they will fight it. Use the links in my last comment to try and get assistance.
You don’t need a receipt, only some proof of purchase such as a credit or bank card statement, though not having a receipt further complicates an already difficult matter. If the guarantee ran out 4 months ago the retailer and manufacturer are unlikely to help. They will both tell you that it is now out of guarantee and all repairs are chargeable.
If you believe the appliance has not lasted a reasonable time you can pursue the retailer using the Sale of Good Act but they will fight it. Use the links in my last comment to try and get assistance.
0 replies my dishwasher has being playing up and had a quote to fix it £140 but its guarantee has run out 4 month sago so i throw out my receipt have i got any chance of getting anything back from the retailer
my dishwasher has being playing up and had a quote to fix it £140 but its guarantee has run out 4 month sago so i throw out my receipt have i got any chance of getting anything back from the retailer
0 replies Mr Dobalina: Thanks for sharing your experience. You have found the same attitude that most people find, which is basically intransigence. Many companies appear to totally disagree with this aspect of the sale of goods act and don't see why they should be liable. I do have some sympathy with them on that. It must be a real pain to be expected to be liable for something you sold (and possibly made just a small profit on) over 2 years or more ago when it not remotely your fault that it's now scrap because you didn't make it. But the government has made them responsible so they have to deal with it. In theory this obligation should improve the quality of products as retailers realise it's more trouble than it's worth to sell products that don't last a fair time. The government presumably think that retailers should take responsibility for the quality of the products they sell us to make profit. At the end of the day if a product is rubbish it's totally the fault of the manufacturer but we didn't buy it from the manufacturer we bought it from a retailer who profited from selling it to us and we bought it from them in good faith expecting it to do what it's supposed to and last a reasonable amount of time. They seem to forget it's also designed to protect every one of them and their families too when they end up with an expensive product that is scrap after only a few years. They are right in that products are not expected to never break down within the 6 years (5 in Scotland) or even necessarily last 6 years, it depends on what product it is, how much it cost and how it has been used. This is also pointed out in my article. The sale of goods act implicitly says it must be fit for its purpose and must last a reasonable time when taking all the cost/usage into consideration. The stumbling block is that the word "reasonable" is totally subjective. Basically I don't think 2 years and 4 months is anywhere near a reasonable time for a major white goods appliance to last before it needs throwing on the rubbish tip helping to destroy our environment and having to be replaced. If the replacement lasted a similarly short time then accepting that as OK means people are potentially expected to scrap a large appliance and buy a new one every two or three years for the rest of their lives, which is totally unnaceptable on any level. Clearly you also agree it hasn't lasted a reasonable time, but the problem is that many companies (the majority I fear) simply refuse to take the hit for it and defiantly reject the customer's consumer rights. If companies sell rubbish products and have to recompense customers when they don't last a reasonable time they would have to start selling better quality products, but they currently get away with ignoring the sale of goods act so much that it hardly affects them. Very few people will stick to their guns and refuse to accept that they have no claim. This, coupled with the fact they are in no way guaranteed to win a claim probably puts off 99% of people with a valid claim. Consumer rights are troublesome to enforce if the company refuses to do anything because you have no option but to take them to the small claims court. Most people can't be bothered so companies know they are safe enough just digging their heels in. Ultimately no one can tell you with certainty that a small claims court judge would agree with you that 2 years 4 months is an unreasonably short time so there's no guarantee you would win. However, the entire point of the small claims court is to assist the public in fighting big intransigent companies and redress the balance a little. The entire procedure should be fairly straight forward, relatively cheap, with little financial risk and can even be done online. If you did win the case though they can take off the amount of time you have had use of the washing machine so if the average life of a washing machine is (tragically) only about 7 years these days then if you've had 2 years 4 months use you've had roughly just over 30% of the life of one so in theory should be entitled to a refund of around 70%. Ultimately only the stubborn and highly principled are likely to pursue this sort of thing although simply informing them you have taken steps to make a small claim in the courts and maybe sending them the link (below) could persuade them to offer something... My opinion is not official. I'm not qualified in consumer issues. I have merely made it my business to study consumer issues and law as part of my job and as part of my free advice on this blog and Washerhelp.co.uk. For official help please try - Citizens Advice | Money claim online
Mr Dobalina: Thanks for sharing your experience. You have found the same attitude that most people find, which is basically intransigence. Many companies appear to totally disagree with this aspect of the sale of goods act and don’t see why they should be liable. I do have some sympathy with them on that. It must be a real pain to be expected to be liable for something you sold (and possibly made just a small profit on) over 2 years or more ago when it not remotely your fault that it’s now scrap because you didn’t make it. But the government has made them responsible so they have to deal with it.
In theory this obligation should improve the quality of products as retailers realise it’s more trouble than it’s worth to sell products that don’t last a fair time. The government presumably think that retailers should take responsibility for the quality of the products they sell us to make profit. At the end of the day if a product is rubbish it’s totally the fault of the manufacturer but we didn’t buy it from the manufacturer we bought it from a retailer who profited from selling it to us and we bought it from them in good faith expecting it to do what it’s supposed to and last a reasonable amount of time. They seem to forget it’s also designed to protect every one of them and their families too when they end up with an expensive product that is scrap after only a few years.
They are right in that products are not expected to never break down within the 6 years (5 in Scotland) or even necessarily last 6 years, it depends on what product it is, how much it cost and how it has been used. This is also pointed out in my article. The sale of goods act implicitly says it must be fit for its purpose and must last a reasonable time when taking all the cost/usage into consideration. The stumbling block is that the word “reasonable” is totally subjective.
Basically I don’t think 2 years and 4 months is anywhere near a reasonable time for a major white goods appliance to last before it needs throwing on the rubbish tip helping to destroy our environment and having to be replaced. If the replacement lasted a similarly short time then accepting that as OK means people are potentially expected to scrap a large appliance and buy a new one every two or three years for the rest of their lives, which is totally unnaceptable on any level.
Clearly you also agree it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time, but the problem is that many companies (the majority I fear) simply refuse to take the hit for it and defiantly reject the customer’s consumer rights. If companies sell rubbish products and have to recompense customers when they don’t last a reasonable time they would have to start selling better quality products, but they currently get away with ignoring the sale of goods act so much that it hardly affects them.
Very few people will stick to their guns and refuse to accept that they have no claim. This, coupled with the fact they are in no way guaranteed to win a claim probably puts off 99% of people with a valid claim. Consumer rights are troublesome to enforce if the company refuses to do anything because you have no option but to take them to the small claims court. Most people can’t be bothered so companies know they are safe enough just digging their heels in.
Ultimately no one can tell you with certainty that a small claims court judge would agree with you that 2 years 4 months is an unreasonably short time so there’s no guarantee you would win. However, the entire point of the small claims court is to assist the public in fighting big intransigent companies and redress the balance a little. The entire procedure should be fairly straight forward, relatively cheap, with little financial risk and can even be done online.
If you did win the case though they can take off the amount of time you have had use of the washing machine so if the average life of a washing machine is (tragically) only about 7 years these days then if you’ve had 2 years 4 months use you’ve had roughly just over 30% of the life of one so in theory should be entitled to a refund of around 70%.
Ultimately only the stubborn and highly principled are likely to pursue this sort of thing although simply informing them you have taken steps to make a small claim in the courts and maybe sending them the link (below) could persuade them to offer something…
My opinion is not official. I’m not qualified in consumer issues. I have merely made it my business to study consumer issues and law as part of my job and as part of my free advice on this blog and Washerhelp.co.uk. For official help please try –
0 replies Got a reply from barratts just before 6pm. Some guy called Chris Carty advised the following after I asked fir thus issue to be escalated; "I have received a copy of your e-mail of today's date regarding the washing machine and dishwasher at your home. I confirm I have consulted our Head of Legal Services. He advises that whilst it is correct that the time limit for bringing a claim under the Sale of Goods Act is 6 years from purchase this does not mean that all goods must last six years. We are satisfied that the goods supplied were of sufficient durability for their intended use and that accordingly you have no basis for a claim against us in this instance. I regret that I cannot be of any further assistance in this matter." So, any advice on how one forces the issue with barratts and get them to take responsibility for the dead washing machine? Regards Bob
Got a reply from barratts just before 6pm.
Some guy called Chris Carty advised the following after I asked fir thus issue to be escalated;
“I have received a copy of your e-mail of today’s date regarding the washing machine and dishwasher at your home. I confirm I have consulted our Head of Legal Services. He advises that whilst it is correct that the time limit for bringing a claim under the Sale of Goods Act is 6 years from purchase this does not mean that all goods must last six years. We are satisfied that the goods supplied were of sufficient durability for their intended use and that accordingly you have no basis for a claim against us in this instance.
I regret that I cannot be of any further assistance in this matter.”
So, any advice on how one forces the issue with barratts and get them to take responsibility for the dead washing machine?
Regards
Bob
0 replies Hi there, Very informative website...which sadly is very relevant to us now. Our problem is the bearings in our washing machine have gone and the entire drum unit requires replacing. The service people have quoted £300 (including parts and labour and VAT) to fix the issue. This is where our problems begin. We initially had a 2 year warranty that came with the machine and the failure happened 2 years 4 months after we moved in (meaning the 2 year warranty period was over). Whirlpool pointed us back to Barratt Homes (as the washing machine was provided with the house when we bought it in Dec 2008). However, not totally unexpected, Barratts Homes couldnt care less, they just said the warranty period was over so too bad! I mentioned to them the sales of goods act and that we believe we are covered for such a major machanical fault that has rendered the machine unusable but they couldnt care less! When I spoke to the customer service person I asked her who she had sought advice from on Barratt homes legal responsibilities, she said it was her own opinion that we werent covered! Her letter in reply to our complaint also specifically did NOT make mention of the Sales of Goods Act either! I have already told them that as the machine came with a four bed family home that it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect the washing machine to be fit for purpose (ie. able to take the pressures of washing for a modern nuclear family of 2.4 people (the .4 is the cat:). Ive also told them that it wouldnt not be unreasonable to expect the washing machine to last longer than 2.4 years before such a major catastrophic fault had occured. OK, I could accept this happening towards the end of year 4 or happening in year five...but not 2 years and 4 months after taking ownership of the machine! So, any idea what our next step would be? If they continue to ignore our pleadings do I just get the thing fixed and then take them to the small claims court to recover our costs? Im off the mind to ask the judge to refund us the £250k we paid for the house...after all, the washing machine came with a free house! :) Regards Mr Bob Dobalina
Hi there,
Very informative website…which sadly is very relevant to us now.
Our problem is the bearings in our washing machine have gone and the entire drum unit requires replacing. The service people have quoted £300 (including parts and labour and VAT) to fix the issue.
This is where our problems begin. We initially had a 2 year warranty that came with the machine and the failure happened 2 years 4 months after we moved in (meaning the 2 year warranty period was over). Whirlpool pointed us back to Barratt Homes (as the washing machine was provided with the house when we bought it in Dec 2008). However, not totally unexpected, Barratts Homes couldnt care less, they just said the warranty period was over so too bad!
I mentioned to them the sales of goods act and that we believe we are covered for such a major machanical fault that has rendered the machine unusable but they couldnt care less! When I spoke to the customer service person I asked her who she had sought advice from on Barratt homes legal responsibilities, she said it was her own opinion that we werent covered! Her letter in reply to our complaint also specifically did NOT make mention of the Sales of Goods Act either!
I have already told them that as the machine came with a four bed family home that it wouldnt be unreasonable to expect the washing machine to be fit for purpose (ie. able to take the pressures of washing for a modern nuclear family of 2.4 people (the .4 is the cat:). Ive also told them that it wouldnt not be unreasonable to expect the washing machine to last longer than 2.4 years before such a major catastrophic fault had occured. OK, I could accept this happening towards the end of year 4 or happening in year five…but not 2 years and 4 months after taking ownership of the machine!
So, any idea what our next step would be? If they continue to ignore our pleadings do I just get the thing fixed and then take them to the small claims court to recover our costs? Im off the mind to ask the judge to refund us the £250k we paid for the house…after all, the washing machine came with a free house! :)
Regards
Mr Bob Dobalina
0 replies Trevor: You need proof of purchase, which could be a bank or credit card statement or a copy of the receipt. The copy would have verifiable information on it. The sale of goods act only makes the original seller of products liable where liability can be shown. A third party warranty is a separate service and would also be covered under the sale of goods act under the providing services section in that it must be fit for its purpose. The company you bought it from would be liable if you could show it wasn't fit for its purpose.
Trevor: You need proof of purchase, which could be a bank or credit card statement or a copy of the receipt. The copy would have verifiable information on it.
The sale of goods act only makes the original seller of products liable where liability can be shown. A third party warranty is a separate service and would also be covered under the sale of goods act under the providing services section in that it must be fit for its purpose. The company you bought it from would be liable if you could show it wasn’t fit for its purpose.
0 replies This web page has been a very useful and interesting What I would like to know is Do you need the original receipt of purchase? Or can you use a copy? For example if I keep all of my receipts I would be using them as a sofa Could I in fact make a copy and keep it on my pc? Also I have sky equipment and with this I have a warinty cover that I pay £5 a month for ( to a third party provider ) they have said I needed this because its out of the 12 month manufacturers warinty. If I'm paying B Sky B for the use of there product and after the 2 years manufactures warinty. Can I get a re placement from sky under the sales of good act? And could I also claim my money back from the third part warinty provider because I didn't need there service anyway?
This web page has been a very useful and interesting
What I would like to know is
Do you need the original receipt of purchase? Or can you use a copy?
For example if I keep all of my receipts I would be using them as a sofa
Could I in fact make a copy and keep it on my pc?
Also I have sky equipment and with this I have a warinty cover that I pay £5 a month for ( to a third party provider ) they have said I needed this because its out of the 12 month manufacturers warinty. If I’m paying B Sky B for the use of there product and after the 2 years manufactures warinty. Can I get a re placement from sky under the sales of good act? And could I also claim my money back from the third part warinty provider because I didn’t need there service anyway?
0 replies Sorry for not replying sooner Frances: It's probably too late now ( as you are likely to have had to do something quite quickly with a failed fridge freezer). Whether you have a claim depends very much on what the fault is, and unfortunately this means you have to get an engineer to look at it to find out. No one is going to do anything until they know exactly what has gone wrong. It could turn out to be something fairly minor which you are happy to have fixed. If it's a major fault that requires a lot of money to fix or even isn't worth repairing that's when your statutory consumer rights should kick in and you would need to take it up with the retailer if you think it hasn't lasted a reasonable time. By lasting a reasonable time I believe they mean if it's completely failed and needs replacing at an unreasonably short time or suffered a serious fault in an unreasonably short time rather than it broke down as some failures can be minor or even related to how they've been used.
Sorry for not replying sooner Frances: It’s probably too late now ( as you are likely to have had to do something quite quickly with a failed fridge freezer). Whether you have a claim depends very much on what the fault is, and unfortunately this means you have to get an engineer to look at it to find out. No one is going to do anything until they know exactly what has gone wrong. It could turn out to be something fairly minor which you are happy to have fixed.
If it’s a major fault that requires a lot of money to fix or even isn’t worth repairing that’s when your statutory consumer rights should kick in and you would need to take it up with the retailer if you think it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time.
By lasting a reasonable time I believe they mean if it’s completely failed and needs replacing at an unreasonably short time or suffered a serious fault in an unreasonably short time rather than it broke down as some failures can be minor or even related to how they’ve been used.
0 replies Hello. I am looking for some advice. I bought a Bosch Frost Free Fridge Freezer in November 2008 it came with the 2 year guarantee. The appliance overheated at the weekend, freezer totally defrosed and fridge overheated, have had to throw everything out and turn off the appliance. When I rang Bosch they said my guarantee had ran out and I could get it fixed if I took out a repair plan. I told them that this was not acceptable and they said sorry you will have to take out a repair plan. Any suggestions. Frances
Hello.
I am looking for some advice. I bought a Bosch Frost Free Fridge Freezer in November 2008 it came with the 2 year guarantee. The appliance overheated at the weekend, freezer totally defrosed and fridge overheated, have had to throw everything out and turn off the appliance. When I rang Bosch they said my guarantee had ran out and I could get it fixed if I took out a repair plan. I told them that this was not acceptable and they said sorry you will have to take out a repair plan.
Any suggestions.
Frances
0 replies Thank you for your reply. I think it's a part in the dryer that's gone as the top of the machine gets hot but heat doesn't reach the drum. I guess it will come down to fair wear 'n' tear which is what I was thinking, even though it only gets used once a week and not even that in warmer months !! Cheers, Lynda~
Thank you for your reply. I think it’s a part in the dryer that’s gone as the top of the machine gets hot but heat doesn’t reach the drum. I guess it will come down to fair wear ‘n’ tear which is what I was thinking, even though it only gets used once a week and not even that in warmer months !!
Cheers, Lynda~
0 replies Excellent Ken, many thanks for the update. Your case, although not related to white goods is a perfect example of using the sale of goods act to get compensation even for a much more serious amount than a washing machine and after 4 years. It's also a great example of how you usually have to fight for your rights, and be patient. We all have rights under the sale of goods act, but as in civil law, having the right doesn't automatically get us justice if the other side doesn't comply. The lesson is that if you genuinely believe you are in the right, and don't fall at all the hurdles they throw in front of you, then you can get compensation in the end. You need a just case though. The retailers often won't comply, not necessarily because they believe they are in the right - but often because they know if they just accept all claims it will cost them a fortune. If anyone else has examples of where they've fought for compensation or recompense please post them, the more the better. Even cases that failed can help us get a handle on this complex issue.
Excellent Ken, many thanks for the update. Your case, although not related to white goods is a perfect example of using the sale of goods act to get compensation even for a much more serious amount than a washing machine and after 4 years.
It’s also a great example of how you usually have to fight for your rights, and be patient. We all have rights under the sale of goods act, but as in civil law, having the right doesn’t automatically get us justice if the other side doesn’t comply.
The lesson is that if you genuinely believe you are in the right, and don’t fall at all the hurdles they throw in front of you, then you can get compensation in the end. You need a just case though. The retailers often won’t comply, not necessarily because they believe they are in the right – but often because they know if they just accept all claims it will cost them a fortune.
If anyone else has examples of where they’ve fought for compensation or recompense please post them, the more the better. Even cases that failed can help us get a handle on this complex issue.
0 replies Re my posting of 8th. Jan. 2010 re faulty kitchen unit doors, I am pleased to report a successful conclusion. A date was fixed for the Small Claims court hearing, but it seemed sensible to consider the local arbitration offered, especially as the judge's comments implied it would be unwise not to! This can only happen if all parties agree, which took some time to establish. Because of this arrangement, the court hearing was put back until 30th. July. Meanwhile I had been exchanging letters mainly with the retailer's owners' solicitors, who clearly wrote their letters without bothering to read the facts of the case first (for instance that we had already arranged to have replacement unit doors fitted). No doubt they would be charging high fees to their clients for these letters. One such letter showed them in such a bad light, that I forwarded it to the court in order to strengthen my case. The solicitors were quite miffed that I had forwarded a "Without Prejudice" letter, but I pointed out I was just an ordinary member of the public and could not get involved in any legal arguments. I received no more letters from them. Re the arbitration, which would have involved myself and three other parties being available at the same time on the phone, it was decided it was too complicated to organise, and the court hearing was confirmed. As 30th. July approached, the manufacturers' solicitors offered £1300 in settlement, £700 from themselves, £300 from the wholesalers, and £300 from the retailers' owners. This was about £150 more than I would have claimed in an early settlement, and covered the full cost of replacement with doors of a similar cost, but in our view, of better quality. Finally, on 4th. August, the last two cheques arrived. I hope this encourages others to make claims against suppliers of goods which become unreasonably faulty.
Re my posting of 8th. Jan. 2010 re faulty kitchen unit doors, I am pleased to report a successful conclusion. A date was fixed for the Small Claims court hearing, but it seemed sensible to consider the local arbitration offered, especially as the judge’s comments implied it would be unwise not to! This can only happen if all parties agree, which took some time to establish. Because of this arrangement, the court hearing was put back until 30th. July.
Meanwhile I had been exchanging letters mainly with the retailer’s owners’ solicitors, who clearly wrote their letters without bothering to read the facts of the case first (for instance that we had already arranged to have replacement unit doors fitted). No doubt they would be charging high fees to their clients for these letters. One such letter showed them in such a bad light, that I forwarded it to the court in order to strengthen my case. The solicitors were quite miffed that I had forwarded a “Without Prejudice” letter, but I pointed out I was just an ordinary member of the public and could not get involved in any legal arguments. I received no more letters from them.
Re the arbitration, which would have involved myself and three other parties being available at the same time on the phone, it was decided it was too complicated to organise, and the court hearing was confirmed. As 30th. July approached, the manufacturers’ solicitors offered £1300 in settlement, £700 from themselves, £300 from the wholesalers, and £300 from the retailers’ owners. This was about £150 more than I would have claimed in an early settlement, and covered the full cost of replacement with doors of a similar cost, but in our view, of better quality.
Finally, on 4th. August, the last two cheques arrived. I hope this encourages others to make claims against suppliers of goods which become unreasonably faulty.
0 replies R Wright: Apologies for not replying sooner. Saying that you should have bought an extended warranty looks a bit disingenuous. By purchasing an extended warranty you absolve them of most Sale of Goods responsibilities because by paying for extra cover any Sale of Goods claims can be just dealt with by the insurance company instead of them. To make matters worse if they are an authorised repair dealer for the insurance company they will even get paid for sorting out the problem they are obliged under consumer law to compensate you for. No wonder they love the extended warranties. Having said that, it could be argued that taking out this cover does offer some useful protection against this sort of situation because as you are finding, claiming against the retailer for a product that hasn't lasted a reasonable time is a hassle to say the least, which is why the vast majority of legitimate claims are never made, or if made never followed up. It's a bit of a cheek for a retailer to say you need to take out extra insurance (which they profit from), so that if it turns out they've sold you a rubbish product you don't have to fight them to get compensated and they don't have to lose out financially by compensating you. Having said that - When a customer has a broken down appliance, which they feel hasn't lasted a reasonable time and is therefore covered under the Sale of Goods Act they naturally complain to the retailer. However, it's quite legitimate for the retailer to not immediately just accept the complaint and compensate them. They have a right to send someone out to inspect the appliance first. They also have a right to charge the customer if it turns out not to be a valid case - although clearly there is a lot of room for dispute about how valid the case may be, and a retailer may dispute a case that a small claims court may validate. Example - A customer could complain that the bearings have gone, and the washing machine is making a horrible grinding noise, but the truth could be that the noise is coming from a small nail or screw left in a pocket and being ground by the impeller. There are numerous examples of faults a customer could be unaware are not really the fault of the appliance, some of which I highlight in this article - I don't want my washing machine repaired - I want it exchanged A customer could complain after 20 months the washing machine has suffered a major breakdown and it should have lasted longer, but it could be the cheapest washing machine on the market and an engineer may call to the house and see the washing machine is in a bad state, been knocked about and is washing for an extended family of 10 people with mountains of washing piled up in the corner. In such a case (which does happen) they would argue the washing machine has lasted as long as you could reasonably expect for how much it cost and what it's had to cope with, and they'd probably be right. So if we accept that in order for both parties to be sure of fair play the retailer will usually need to get an engineer to inspect the machine then the problem is that it's all going to take time, and there's the potential for dispute. In your case I would agree to the retailer coming out to inspect the machine and agree to pay their call out if it turns out to be something not covered as long as they agree that if the drum bearings have actually failed that this is unacceptable and you have a right for compensation under the Sale of Goods Act. If they dispute this fact from the start, what is the point of them inspecting the machine? If they do dispute this you have to decide if you accept that or not, and if not, your only options are to try and enlist a consumer group to help you deal with them, or take them to the small claims court for the cost of the repair or a refund (minus an appropriate amount for the use you've had from the machine so far), which can be done online, and should be relatively straight forward ( I want to claim compensation from the repair company or the washing machine seller ) If you do this you have no guarantee you will win out but I've heard of many cases where people have received compensation or new products after 3 years and even 5. There seems to be a lack of actual cases to learn from on the Internet (I hope this article will eventually attract enough examples of successful or even failed cases, which we can all learn from). Unfortunately unless something changes this is the way things are. Whilst this is the case some consumers will prefer to just buy an extended warranty to cover the risk. My personal preference is to use the money an extended warranty costs to buy a better appliance in the first place, preferably one with a longer guarantee, but I accept this isn't necessarily the best option for everyone. I just find it depressing to think that the people who need the protection of extended warranties the most (because they will be seriously affected by any future repair bills or early replacement costs) are the people who can often least afford to pay extra for virtually every product they buy to "insure" it and would save many thousands of pounds over their lifetime if they didn't have to fork out for them. A high quality retailer is likely to be far more mindful of their hard won reputation and more likely to deal favourably with Sale of Goods claims. Retailers trading not so much on reputation but on price, and big volume sales are more likely to be obstructive in the face of such claims.
R Wright: Apologies for not replying sooner.
Saying that you should have bought an extended warranty looks a bit disingenuous. By purchasing an extended warranty you absolve them of most Sale of Goods responsibilities because by paying for extra cover any Sale of Goods claims can be just dealt with by the insurance company instead of them. To make matters worse if they are an authorised repair dealer for the insurance company they will even get paid for sorting out the problem they are obliged under consumer law to compensate you for. No wonder they love the extended warranties.
Having said that, it could be argued that taking out this cover does offer some useful protection against this sort of situation because as you are finding, claiming against the retailer for a product that hasn’t lasted a reasonable time is a hassle to say the least, which is why the vast majority of legitimate claims are never made, or if made never followed up.
It’s a bit of a cheek for a retailer to say you need to take out extra insurance (which they profit from), so that if it turns out they’ve sold you a rubbish product you don’t have to fight them to get compensated and they don’t have to lose out financially by compensating you.
Having said that –
When a customer has a broken down appliance, which they feel hasn’t lasted a reasonable time and is therefore covered under the Sale of Goods Act they naturally complain to the retailer. However, it’s quite legitimate for the retailer to not immediately just accept the complaint and compensate them. They have a right to send someone out to inspect the appliance first. They also have a right to charge the customer if it turns out not to be a valid case – although clearly there is a lot of room for dispute about how valid the case may be, and a retailer may dispute a case that a small claims court may validate.
Example –
A customer could complain that the bearings have gone, and the washing machine is making a horrible grinding noise, but the truth could be that the noise is coming from a small nail or screw left in a pocket and being ground by the impeller. There are numerous examples of faults a customer could be unaware are not really the fault of the appliance, some of which I highlight in this article – I don’t want my washing machine repaired – I want it exchanged
A customer could complain after 20 months the washing machine has suffered a major breakdown and it should have lasted longer, but it could be the cheapest washing machine on the market and an engineer may call to the house and see the washing machine is in a bad state, been knocked about and is washing for an extended family of 10 people with mountains of washing piled up in the corner. In such a case (which does happen) they would argue the washing machine has lasted as long as you could reasonably expect for how much it cost and what it’s had to cope with, and they’d probably be right.
So if we accept that in order for both parties to be sure of fair play the retailer will usually need to get an engineer to inspect the machine then the problem is that it’s all going to take time, and there’s the potential for dispute. In your case I would agree to the retailer coming out to inspect the machine and agree to pay their call out if it turns out to be something not covered as long as they agree that if the drum bearings have actually failed that this is unacceptable and you have a right for compensation under the Sale of Goods Act. If they dispute this fact from the start, what is the point of them inspecting the machine?
If they do dispute this you have to decide if you accept that or not, and if not, your only options are to try and enlist a consumer group to help you deal with them, or take them to the small claims court for the cost of the repair or a refund (minus an appropriate amount for the use you’ve had from the machine so far), which can be done online, and should be relatively straight forward ( I want to claim compensation from the repair company or the washing machine seller )
If you do this you have no guarantee you will win out but I’ve heard of many cases where people have received compensation or new products after 3 years and even 5. There seems to be a lack of actual cases to learn from on the Internet (I hope this article will eventually attract enough examples of successful or even failed cases, which we can all learn from).
Unfortunately unless something changes this is the way things are. Whilst this is the case some consumers will prefer to just buy an extended warranty to cover the risk. My personal preference is to use the money an extended warranty costs to buy a better appliance in the first place, preferably one with a longer guarantee, but I accept this isn’t necessarily the best option for everyone. I just find it depressing to think that the people who need the protection of extended warranties the most (because they will be seriously affected by any future repair bills or early replacement costs) are the people who can often least afford to pay extra for virtually every product they buy to “insure” it and would save many thousands of pounds over their lifetime if they didn’t have to fork out for them.
A high quality retailer is likely to be far more mindful of their hard won reputation and more likely to deal favourably with Sale of Goods claims. Retailers trading not so much on reputation but on price, and big volume sales are more likely to be obstructive in the face of such claims.
0 replies Whirlpool - I have a whirlpool AWOD 6727 I have had it for 14 months it began screaming and banging and the bearings have gone on the drum = it gave me an electric shock. Guess what Neither Whirlpool or Comet want to know - quoting YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT EXTRA WARRANTY. Comet offered to come and look at it they wanted to charge me for the call out and then go away write a report and decide who was to blame - how long would all that take. I called them on Thursday and they could not come till tuesday and then go away and write the report. I meanwhile have NO WASHING MACHINE. I have written and emailed to the Chief Executive of COMET and am awaiting a reply.
Whirlpool –
I have a whirlpool AWOD 6727
I have had it for 14 months it began screaming and banging and the bearings have gone on the drum = it gave me an electric shock. Guess what Neither Whirlpool or Comet want to know – quoting YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT EXTRA WARRANTY. Comet offered to come and look at it they wanted to charge me for the call out and then go away write a report and decide who was to blame – how long would all that take. I called them on Thursday and they could not come till tuesday and then go away and write the report. I meanwhile have NO WASHING MACHINE. I have written and emailed to the Chief Executive of COMET and am awaiting a reply.
0 replies Sparky: No. Is it one of these? Samsung RS21 and RS60 range fridge freezers recall: Potential fire risk Also, the symptoms you describe are commonly caused by ice forming around the fan which pumps the cold air round. If it's now stopped it could be because the fan is completely encased in ice and stopped running. It's been a problem with Samsung frost free fridge freezers for a long time.
Sparky: No. Is it one of these? Samsung RS21 and RS60 range fridge freezers recall: Potential fire risk
Also, the symptoms you describe are commonly caused by ice forming around the fan which pumps the cold air round. If it’s now stopped it could be because the fan is completely encased in ice and stopped running.
It’s been a problem with Samsung frost free fridge freezers for a long time.
0 replies I have one of these RSH1 samsung fridge freezers, nearly 3 years old, two days ago it started making a noise like a fan was catching on something, it has now stopped, but so has my water dispenser and ice maker, I have phoned samsung and they said a local guy will come by soon and do some safety wiring check, is these two problems conected?
I have one of these RSH1 samsung fridge freezers, nearly 3 years old, two days ago it started making a noise like a fan was catching on something, it has now stopped, but so has my water dispenser and ice maker, I have phoned samsung and they said a local guy will come by soon and do some safety wiring check, is these two problems conected?
0 replies On your last comment about the lesson being to buy an extended guarantee. That's one way of dealing with this problem, but you will pay a lot of money out over the years, thousands probably. All to cover appliances in the first 5 years when they shouldn't be suffering serious breakdowns anyway, and even if they do the retailers are often responsible for compensating us for it. The trouble is it's inconvenient and often hard work to get this compensation so the majority of people never pursue it and will even pay out extra money for the largely unnecessary cover. I understand why so many people do it for an easier life but we should never need to insure all our many products for the first 5 years, they should be good enough quality to last at least 5 years. All consumer groups including Which? advise it's bad value for money.
On your last comment about the lesson being to buy an extended guarantee. That’s one way of dealing with this problem, but you will pay a lot of money out over the years, thousands probably. All to cover appliances in the first 5 years when they shouldn’t be suffering serious breakdowns anyway, and even if they do the retailers are often responsible for compensating us for it.
The trouble is it’s inconvenient and often hard work to get this compensation so the majority of people never pursue it and will even pay out extra money for the largely unnecessary cover. I understand why so many people do it for an easier life but we should never need to insure all our many products for the first 5 years, they should be good enough quality to last at least 5 years. All consumer groups including Which? advise it’s bad value for money.
0 replies Miss J Hunt: You highlight one of the problems with this situation. No retailer will just give us a refund because we say an appliance has broken down. They need to have their engineer or the manufacturer's engineer check it out first. This is reasonable. As you point out though, with most of our white goods appliances we don't have time to wait around and let this drawn out process happen. In your case though, as you have a Hotpoint appliance, you can get the Hotpoint engineer to repair it for £104.97 which includes parts and labour - So you don't need to buy a new fridge! Either they will repair it for the £104.97, or they will say it's not worth repairing (if by any chance it's something serious). If they repair it, for £104.97 you can put in a claim to Currys for compensation of the cost of the repair under the Sale of Goods Act by claiming it hasn't lasted a reasonable amount of time. If the Hotpoint engineer said it wasn't repairing of course you'd have definite proof that it hasn't lasted a reasonable time to take to Currys. The important thing to remember is that it is the retailer who sold it to you that's responsible for compensation and not the manufacturer although some manufacturers may occasionally offer to replace appliances or do a free repair. If you decide to buy a new fridge immediately you would need to get Hotpoint or the Currys engineer out to look at the old one as soon as possible but they may well find out it's easily fixable and you didn't need a new one after all.
Miss J Hunt: You highlight one of the problems with this situation. No retailer will just give us a refund because we say an appliance has broken down. They need to have their engineer or the manufacturer’s engineer check it out first. This is reasonable. As you point out though, with most of our white goods appliances we don’t have time to wait around and let this drawn out process happen.
In your case though, as you have a Hotpoint appliance, you can get the Hotpoint engineer to repair it for £104.97 which includes parts and labour – So you don’t need to buy a new fridge!
Either they will repair it for the £104.97, or they will say it’s not worth repairing (if by any chance it’s something serious). If they repair it, for £104.97 you can put in a claim to Currys for compensation of the cost of the repair under the Sale of Goods Act by claiming it hasn’t lasted a reasonable amount of time.
If the Hotpoint engineer said it wasn’t repairing of course you’d have definite proof that it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time to take to Currys.
The important thing to remember is that it is the retailer who sold it to you that’s responsible for compensation and not the manufacturer although some manufacturers may occasionally offer to replace appliances or do a free repair.
If you decide to buy a new fridge immediately you would need to get Hotpoint or the Currys engineer out to look at the old one as soon as possible but they may well find out it’s easily fixable and you didn’t need a new one after all.
0 replies Went down this morning, the manager was very nice, but obviously well versed in the trading laws. He said he was unable to authorise any sort of refund or compensation, and the best chance of me getting anything of that sort would be to write a hand written letter to Customer Services, Currys, the parkway, Sheffield, when I have had an engineer come to look at the appliance and diagnosed the fault. If it was a faulty part that was either faulty from purchase or had become faulty without any sort of mis-use on our part, then Currys 'may' pay for the repair and refund the cost of the engineers call-out / labour. The problem with fridge/freezers is: When one breaks, you need another replacement immediately, and unless you have a garage or large house with enough room to store the old one, theres nowhere to put the broken appliance while the engineer comes. So either way I have had to buy a new one. I assume the small claims court will also require proof of the fault by an engineers report, in which case I cannot claim as I have nowhere to put the old appliance, and cannot now afford to lay out money for an engineers callout now I have had to purchase a new fridgefreezer (we walked straight OUT of Currys and into Comets !) Lesson learned for me, I have purchased a 5 year warranty on my new samsung fridgefreezer.....
Went down this morning, the manager was very nice, but obviously well versed in the trading laws. He said he was unable to authorise any sort of refund or compensation, and the best chance of me getting anything of that sort would be to write a hand written letter to Customer Services, Currys, the parkway, Sheffield, when I have had an engineer come to look at the appliance and diagnosed the fault. If it was a faulty part that was either faulty from purchase or had become faulty without any sort of mis-use on our part, then Currys ‘may’ pay for the repair and refund the cost of the engineers call-out / labour.
The problem with fridge/freezers is: When one breaks, you need another replacement immediately, and unless you have a garage or large house with enough room to store the old one, theres nowhere to put the broken appliance while the engineer comes. So either way I have had to buy a new one.
I assume the small claims court will also require proof of the fault by an engineers report, in which case I cannot claim as I have nowhere to put the old appliance, and cannot now afford to lay out money for an engineers callout now I have had to purchase a new fridgefreezer (we walked straight OUT of Currys and into Comets !)
Lesson learned for me, I have purchased a 5 year warranty on my new samsung fridgefreezer…..
0 replies Thanks, please let us know how you get on.
Thanks, please let us know how you get on.
0 replies Thankyou for the information on here. I have a faulty hotpoint fride freezer only 14 months old purchased from currys, and thought I didnt have any rights as the manufacturers guarantee was only 12 months and I couldnt afford extended warranty. I now intend to go down to currys and argue my case with them.
Thankyou for the information on here. I have a faulty hotpoint fride freezer only 14 months old purchased from currys, and thought I didnt have any rights as the manufacturers guarantee was only 12 months and I couldnt afford extended warranty.
I now intend to go down to currys and argue my case with them.
0 replies Many thanks Lilly. Anyone following this article might be interested to know I've added a few paragraphs to the original article quoting advice given by the government to retailers and linking to a business advice site run by the government. It's down near the bottom under the heading "Here's what the government advises retailers regarding their obligations"
Many thanks Lilly.
Anyone following this article might be interested to know I’ve added a few paragraphs to the original article quoting advice given by the government to retailers and linking to a business advice site run by the government. It’s down near the bottom under the heading “Here’s what the government advises retailers regarding their obligations”
0 replies Thanks to the information and advice provided by Andy I have at last had the defective fridge-freezer removed, and replaced by a Beko model of similar size at a cost of about £148 (free collection and delivery)- roughly half list price. This is rather more satisfactory than the "engineer's" indication of £20 off his bill if I bought a new appliance! (See eearlier entries on blog above). Thanks again, Andy, for the moral support and effective help. Lilly.
Thanks to the information and advice provided by Andy I have at last had the defective fridge-freezer removed, and replaced by a Beko model of similar size at a cost of about £148 (free collection and delivery)- roughly half list price.
This is rather more satisfactory than the “engineer’s” indication of £20 off his bill if I bought a new appliance! (See eearlier entries on blog above).
Thanks again, Andy, for the moral support and effective help.
Lilly.
0 replies Linda. As mentioned in the article and comments after, under the sale of Goods Act it's the retailer you would need to complain to if you believe it's not been of reasonable quality and has not lasted a reasonable time. Whether this is the case or not is far from clear and may need to be tested in the small claims court. There's little doubt most retailers will fight you but that doesn't mean they will win. It just means probably 99% of people will begrudgingly accept what they say. I can't imagine any retailer accepting responsibility for a repair out of guarantee unless you fight, they will simply say, sorry, it's out of guarantee there's nothing we can do. However, this is not true. They are responsible under the Sale of Goods Act if you can show the appliance was not fit for purpose, or not of reasonable quality or has not lasted a reasonable time. Having said that we can't say no appliance should ever break down at all out of guarantee so it depends on looking at all circumstances. If a minor fault develops maybe most people would accept it, but if the repair costs are going to be very expensive - and as commonly happens these days - beyond economical repair you probably have a good case that the appliance has not lasted a reasonable time. It doesn't matter how rubbish a product may turn out to be, the manufacturer didn't sell you the appliance, the retailer did, and the contract is between you and who you bought it from. It's up to the retailer to take it up with the manufacturer if they have to pay out compensation. As you've found, retailers are reluctant to deal with this aspect of the sale of goods act and they've got away with it for so long they've all but forgotten about its implications. They are just not geared up for dealing with and more importantly paying out for thousands of claims under the Sale of Goods Act on appliances under 6 years old but outside of the manufacturer's guarantee. Therefore only people prepared to go to the trouble of fighting for their rights and of course taking a chance they might lose the claim will pursue anything past the first brush off from the retailer and so nothing much changes. Generally, if you can show it hasn't lasted a reasonable time you can claim compensation, which often may be the costs of the repair and of course your (minor) small claims court costs. If the appliance is beyond economical repair you may be entitled to claim a refund minus an appropriate amount for the use you have had from it prior to the fault.
Linda. As mentioned in the article and comments after, under the sale of Goods Act it’s the retailer you would need to complain to if you believe it’s not been of reasonable quality and has not lasted a reasonable time.
Whether this is the case or not is far from clear and may need to be tested in the small claims court. There’s little doubt most retailers will fight you but that doesn’t mean they will win. It just means probably 99% of people will begrudgingly accept what they say. I can’t imagine any retailer accepting responsibility for a repair out of guarantee unless you fight, they will simply say, sorry, it’s out of guarantee there’s nothing we can do. However, this is not true. They are responsible under the Sale of Goods Act if you can show the appliance was not fit for purpose, or not of reasonable quality or has not lasted a reasonable time.
Having said that we can’t say no appliance should ever break down at all out of guarantee so it depends on looking at all circumstances. If a minor fault develops maybe most people would accept it, but if the repair costs are going to be very expensive – and as commonly happens these days – beyond economical repair you probably have a good case that the appliance has not lasted a reasonable time.
It doesn’t matter how rubbish a product may turn out to be, the manufacturer didn’t sell you the appliance, the retailer did, and the contract is between you and who you bought it from. It’s up to the retailer to take it up with the manufacturer if they have to pay out compensation.
As you’ve found, retailers are reluctant to deal with this aspect of the sale of goods act and they’ve got away with it for so long they’ve all but forgotten about its implications. They are just not geared up for dealing with and more importantly paying out for thousands of claims under the Sale of Goods Act on appliances under 6 years old but outside of the manufacturer’s guarantee.
Therefore only people prepared to go to the trouble of fighting for their rights and of course taking a chance they might lose the claim will pursue anything past the first brush off from the retailer and so nothing much changes. Generally, if you can show it hasn’t lasted a reasonable time you can claim compensation, which often may be the costs of the repair and of course your (minor) small claims court costs. If the appliance is beyond economical repair you may be entitled to claim a refund minus an appropriate amount for the use you have had from it prior to the fault.
0 replies Hi, I have read through your different posts, and all are of interest. I have been reading a lot around this subject, purely from a business I am starting up ( have not mentioned it here as don't want to be accused of jumping on the bandwagon as such, if people want to know I wil post another piece with its details, it will be of use to people who commented here on this post.). I am interested to know of all those people when you returned to the retailer or manufacturer with their particular product issues, did you have the following : (A) Receipt, and where you asked for it? (B) Knowledge of guarantee length and expiration? This will help me understand more the issues that consumers are having with manufacturers and retailers, as this will help me fine tune the service I am working on. This website is a great resource for consumers,I will follow it more, and thanks for this very informative post.
Hi,
I have read through your different posts, and all are of interest. I have been reading a lot around this subject, purely from a business I am starting up ( have not mentioned it here as don’t want to be accused of jumping on the bandwagon as such, if people want to know I wil post another piece with its details, it will be of use to people who commented here on this post.).
I am interested to know of all those people when you returned to the retailer or manufacturer with their particular product issues, did you have the following :
(A) Receipt, and where you asked for it?
(B) Knowledge of guarantee length and expiration?
This will help me understand more the issues that consumers are having with manufacturers and retailers, as this will help me fine tune the service I am working on.
This website is a great resource for consumers,I will follow it more, and thanks for this very informative post.
0 replies Please keep us informed on your case Ken. Although it's not directly related to appliances it's interesting to see how people get on when taking a trader to the small claims court. Your case sounds a bit complex but if you buy kitchen doors they must be for for their purpose, and one of their purposes is to be fitted to the front of the cupboards above the kitchen worktop. Everyone knows kettles are normally used on these worktops so presumably any kitchen cupboard door should be designed to withstand the steam from a boiling kettle.
Please keep us informed on your case Ken. Although it’s not directly related to appliances it’s interesting to see how people get on when taking a trader to the small claims court.
Your case sounds a bit complex but if you buy kitchen doors they must be for for their purpose, and one of their purposes is to be fitted to the front of the cupboards above the kitchen worktop. Everyone knows kettles are normally used on these worktops so presumably any kitchen cupboard door should be designed to withstand the steam from a boiling kettle.
0 replies In our case, we bought replacement doors and side panels for our kitchen units. We assumed they were oak veneers. It transpires they were what is termed 'foil' (resembles vinyl wallpaper) glued onto MDF. A boiling kettle will over time melt the glue, loosening the foil, creating a bubbling effect. After 4 years, this has happened to us, but as we have no washing machine or tumble-dryer, this must have happened to others within 2 years. Indeed the retailers admitted (verbally) to at least one such problem. Trading Standards said we had a claim within the 6 year rule. The retailers would only replace 'at cost', i.e. at cost to us, but in any event they had nothing which we could accept. They 'do not pay compensation. The original cost was £600 plus about £1400 labour, as drawers had to be made to replace the originals. Replacement with what are apparently more durable surfaces, 'laminated', will cost about £650 plus £300 labour. We have taken the claim to the Small Claims Court, for an amount between £950 and £2000, as we do not know the actual cost for certain. On the advice of a solicitor, as we paid our joiner for the goods, who had paid the retailers, we have to sue the joiner, the retailers, their suppliers (and as these suppliers have brought in the manufacturers as an extra defendant (having initially declined to give me their details)), the manufacturers. As the retailers had not submitted their Acknowledgement of Service in time, I posted my claim for judgment on 29th December, 1st. class. The Court says they do not have it. Meanwhile the retailers have declared their intention to defend, which is being allowed, as it would be, the court says, even if they had received my claim for judgment. The three dealers are limited companies, so have to use a solicitor, the same one in this case. It appears important to them to continue to sell rubbish. I'm doing my bit against shoddy goods. Is anyone else?
In our case, we bought replacement doors and side panels for our kitchen units. We assumed they were oak veneers. It transpires they were what is termed ‘foil’ (resembles vinyl wallpaper) glued onto MDF. A boiling kettle will over time melt the glue, loosening the foil, creating a bubbling effect. After 4 years, this has happened to us, but as we have no washing machine or tumble-dryer, this must have happened to others within 2 years. Indeed the retailers admitted (verbally) to at least one such problem. Trading Standards said we had a claim within the 6 year rule. The retailers would only replace ‘at cost’, i.e. at cost to us, but in any event they had nothing which we could accept. They ‘do not pay compensation. The original cost was £600 plus about £1400 labour, as drawers had to be made to replace the originals. Replacement with what are apparently more durable surfaces, ‘laminated’, will cost about £650 plus £300 labour. We have taken the claim to the Small Claims Court, for an amount between £950 and £2000, as we do not know the actual cost for certain.
On the advice of a solicitor, as we paid our joiner for the goods, who had paid the retailers, we have to sue the joiner, the retailers, their suppliers (and as these suppliers have brought in the manufacturers as an extra defendant (having initially declined to give me their details)), the manufacturers.
As the retailers had not submitted their Acknowledgement
of Service in time, I posted my claim for judgment on 29th December, 1st. class. The Court says they do not have it. Meanwhile the retailers have declared their intention to defend, which is being allowed, as it would be, the court says, even if they had received my claim for judgment.
The three dealers are limited companies, so have to use a solicitor, the same one in this case. It appears important to them to continue to sell rubbish.
I’m doing my bit against shoddy goods. Is anyone else?
0 replies Paula. Although your query isn't regarding a white goods appliance the principles should be the same. The phrase, "we only have to give one years guarantee" is a bit of nonsense really because they don't have to give any specific guarantee and many manufacturers give 2 year, 3 year, 5 year - 10 year warranties. And, as they are all forced to point out in their literature, the manufacturer's guarantee "does not affect your statutory rights". The statutory rights they mention are government imposed consumer rights written in The Sales of Goods Act as discussed in this article. The guarantee's they give to us when we buy a product are, "in addition to your statutory rights. The statutory rights say a product should last a reasonable time before breaking down. What's reasonable depends on the cost and how much usage it's had but I would have thought most people would say a month out of guarantee isn't reasonable especially if it's an expensive fault. Your only redress is with the people you bought it from but they are likely to fob you off. The manufacturer has no responsibility whatsoever so don't waste your time with them. Unless they decide to do something out of good will (which can happen) they are just not obliged to do anything even though they made it. Unfortunately (for the retailers) the retailer is 100% responsible but they are likely to fob you off too. Most retailers probably think it's unfair that they are responsible and I have a lot of sympathy for that. But we should all be entitled to our rights without a fight (they buy products too don't they?) The chances are most of the front line staff at most retailers will genuinely not have been trained about these rights and genuinely think once a product's out of guarantee it's just bad luck. Therefore anyone who believes they have a strong case may have to fight their way past them. All you can do is either shrug it off and accept it, or take advice from the consumer advice people with a view to taking them to the small claims court where a judge will decide if it's reasonable that it has broken down so quickly or not. You wouldn't be entitled to your money back but to claim compensation to cover the costs of repair. You need to read all the advice and booklets linked to on this article and the consumer help pages. It's a lot of messing about, and most people won't pursue it because of the hassle and stress, and there's no guarantee of winning, which is why nothing much changes. However, the small claims court is supposed to make it relatively easy and cheap for ordinary consumers to take a company to court and it can even be done online - Taking a company to the small claims court. Retailers can't afford to suddenly start compensating many thousands of people when products break down under 6 years old (5 in Scotland) so most will dig their heels in and refuse to do anything unless forced. As my original article points out, no one has a blanket 5 or 6 year guarantee under the Sales of Goods Act, people need to read the article and the links from it carefully to understand what their rights are. The UK Sales of Goods Act just sets out the maximum 5 and 6 year terms beyond which it's too late to use the courts. We have a right for a product to last "a reasonable time" without breaking down and to last a "reasonable" time before needing replacing. What is reasonable is subjective, and all circumstances must be taken into account. I think products just out of guarantee have a strong case and I definitely believe any expensive product under 5 or 6 years old that breaks down and is beyond economical repair is also a strong case. However, if it's been flogged really hard and was a budget brand things start to get cloudy.
Paula. Although your query isn’t regarding a white goods appliance the principles should be the same. The phrase, “we only have to give one years guarantee” is a bit of nonsense really because they don’t have to give any specific guarantee and many manufacturers give 2 year, 3 year, 5 year – 10 year warranties. And, as they are all forced to point out in their literature, the manufacturer’s guarantee “does not affect your statutory rights”.
The statutory rights they mention are government imposed consumer rights written in The Sales of Goods Act as discussed in this article. The guarantee’s they give to us when we buy a product are, “in addition to your statutory rights.
The statutory rights say a product should last a reasonable time before breaking down. What’s reasonable depends on the cost and how much usage it’s had but I would have thought most people would say a month out of guarantee isn’t reasonable especially if it’s an expensive fault.
Your only redress is with the people you bought it from but they are likely to fob you off. The manufacturer has no responsibility whatsoever so don’t waste your time with them. Unless they decide to do something out of good will (which can happen) they are just not obliged to do anything even though they made it.
Unfortunately (for the retailers) the retailer is 100% responsible but they are likely to fob you off too. Most retailers probably think it’s unfair that they are responsible and I have a lot of sympathy for that. But we should all be entitled to our rights without a fight (they buy products too don’t they?)
The chances are most of the front line staff at most retailers will genuinely not have been trained about these rights and genuinely think once a product’s out of guarantee it’s just bad luck. Therefore anyone who believes they have a strong case may have to fight their way past them.
All you can do is either shrug it off and accept it, or take advice from the consumer advice people with a view to taking them to the small claims court where a judge will decide if it’s reasonable that it has broken down so quickly or not. You wouldn’t be entitled to your money back but to claim compensation to cover the costs of repair.
You need to read all the advice and booklets linked to on this article and the consumer help pages. It’s a lot of messing about, and most people won’t pursue it because of the hassle and stress, and there’s no guarantee of winning, which is why nothing much changes. However, the small claims court is supposed to make it relatively easy and cheap for ordinary consumers to take a company to court and it can even be done online – Taking a company to the small claims court.
Retailers can’t afford to suddenly start compensating many thousands of people when products break down under 6 years old (5 in Scotland) so most will dig their heels in and refuse to do anything unless forced.
As my original article points out, no one has a blanket 5 or 6 year guarantee under the Sales of Goods Act, people need to read the article and the links from it carefully to understand what their rights are. The UK Sales of Goods Act just sets out the maximum 5 and 6 year terms beyond which it’s too late to use the courts. We have a right for a product to last “a reasonable time” without breaking down and to last a “reasonable” time before needing replacing. What is reasonable is subjective, and all circumstances must be taken into account.
I think products just out of guarantee have a strong case and I definitely believe any expensive product under 5 or 6 years old that breaks down and is beyond economical repair is also a strong case. However, if it’s been flogged really hard and was a budget brand things start to get cloudy.
0 replies I have just one month over the year guarantee Acer pc, I have contacted Acer as it has a fault they have told me since it is now out of warranty, I will have to pay £51.99 for collection and then pay for the repairs, I did state this EU directive but they insist they only have to give one year, do I have any rights I purchased the Acer from QVC should I go back to them, any help would be appreciated. Regards Paula
I have just one month over the year guarantee Acer pc, I have contacted Acer as it has a fault they have told me since it is now out of warranty, I will have to pay £51.99 for collection and then pay for the repairs, I did state this EU directive but they insist they only have to give one year, do I have any rights I purchased the Acer from QVC should I go back to them, any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Paula
0 replies Lilly: The way I see it is - Either your fridge is beyond economical repair in which case you need to decide whether to accept this, or claim in the small claims court (which is actually pretty simple) against the seller under the Sales of Goods act. Or, your fridge has been misdiagnosed and is repairable. Unfortunately you can't know this for sure without getting a second engineer out. Although I appreciate you are trying to find this out without getting an engineer we can't get bogged down in trying to diagnose individual appliance faults. The best I can do is say that the diagnosis of not having enough gas because of a leak and therefore the appliance is not worth repairing is feasible. If a pcb or stat fault was causing the fridge to run continuously all the milk should freeze and it would get very cold indeed. On the other hand if there isn't enough gas in to allow it to reach the required temperature it would run continuously because it can't get cold enough to trip the stat. If you suspect the fridge is repairable you need to get another engineer (I'd recommend an LG dealer). If he confirms it's not worth repairing you should be able to claim his costs as part of your compensation claim. If he says it is repairable for a reasonable cost you can try to claim back the money you paid for the first engineer and also decide whether to accept the repair as reasonable, or try to claim it is unreasonable to need this repair after 5 years or so in which case a small claims court judgement in your favour would be required. Unfortunately all this is a lot of stress and hassle which is why most people don't bother and why most legitimate claims under the Sales of Goods Act don't get pursued.
Lilly: The way I see it is –
Either your fridge is beyond economical repair in which case you need to decide whether to accept this, or claim in the small claims court (which is actually pretty simple) against the seller under the Sales of Goods act.
Or, your fridge has been misdiagnosed and is repairable. Unfortunately you can’t know this for sure without getting a second engineer out. Although I appreciate you are trying to find this out without getting an engineer we can’t get bogged down in trying to diagnose individual appliance faults.
The best I can do is say that the diagnosis of not having enough gas because of a leak and therefore the appliance is not worth repairing is feasible. If a pcb or stat fault was causing the fridge to run continuously all the milk should freeze and it would get very cold indeed. On the other hand if there isn’t enough gas in to allow it to reach the required temperature it would run continuously because it can’t get cold enough to trip the stat.
If you suspect the fridge is repairable you need to get another engineer (I’d recommend an LG dealer). If he confirms it’s not worth repairing you should be able to claim his costs as part of your compensation claim.
If he says it is repairable for a reasonable cost you can try to claim back the money you paid for the first engineer and also decide whether to accept the repair as reasonable, or try to claim it is unreasonable to need this repair after 5 years or so in which case a small claims court judgement in your favour would be required.
Unfortunately all this is a lot of stress and hassle which is why most people don’t bother and why most legitimate claims under the Sales of Goods Act don’t get pursued.
0 replies Thanks for your latest. No, when I ran the fridge experimentally it cooled from 64deg room temp to 40deg ("Normal" setting) in a couple of hours, so presumably gas and compressor were OK. It's juist that the motor wouldnot stop running... ... Hence my question about pcb - or what about thermostats, are they indepednet, or incorporated into the pcb? I assume purchasing one of these would be possible and MUST cost less and be QUICKER than going to a small claims court? As usual, L.
Thanks for your latest.
No, when I ran the fridge experimentally it cooled from 64deg room temp to 40deg (“Normal” setting) in a couple of hours, so presumably gas and compressor were OK. It’s juist that the motor wouldnot stop running… …
Hence my question about pcb – or what about thermostats, are they indepednet, or incorporated into the pcb?
I assume purchasing one of these would be possible and MUST cost less and be QUICKER than going to a small claims court?
As usual, L.
0 replies Lilly: PCB is a Printed Circuit Board. It's a board full of resistors and microchips etc. I'm presuming from your description that there wasn't enough gas in the machine due to a leakage. This meant the fridge could never be brought down to temperature and would run continuously. It sounds like the machine is beyond economical repair and so the question is has it lasted a reasonable amount of time? Most would say not. You need to go to the small claims court if the retailer refuses to offer any compensation. You can do it online easily and cheaply (links available on my consumer section links in previous comments above)
Lilly: PCB is a Printed Circuit Board. It’s a board full of resistors and microchips etc.
I’m presuming from your description that there wasn’t enough gas in the machine due to a leakage. This meant the fridge could never be brought down to temperature and would run continuously.
It sounds like the machine is beyond economical repair and so the question is has it lasted a reasonable amount of time? Most would say not. You need to go to the small claims court if the retailer refuses to offer any compensation. You can do it online easily and cheaply (links available on my consumer section links in previous comments above)
0 replies Have just read (under the Repaircare heading) contributions by someone whose his fridge-freezer needed only a "pcb" replacement. What is a "pcb" please. My appliance's compressor and gas were working; was it a "pcb" fault that the "engineer" should have diagnosed BUT DID NOT? Incidentally I DID carefully study the "handbook" that came with the appliance. Very limited "trouble-shooting" advice. Nothing whatosever about running on and on apparently out of control.
Have just read (under the Repaircare heading) contributions by someone whose his fridge-freezer needed only a “pcb” replacement.
What is a “pcb” please.
My appliance’s compressor and gas were working; was it a “pcb” fault that the “engineer” should have diagnosed BUT DID NOT?
Incidentally I DID carefully study the “handbook” that came with the appliance. Very limited “trouble-shooting” advice. Nothing whatosever about running on and on apparently out of control.
0 replies Of course I agree that after five years I should not expect my money back. What I do expect is a correct diagnosis, and trhe replacement of whichever component has failed. Repair would not have cost the retailer anything since I was under the illusion that I would pay the price of that component in the same way as I paid the "engineer's" call-out fee. Was this man 'qualified' only to con elderly women into buying a new appliace because the old one must be written off?
Of course I agree that after five years I should not expect my money back.
What I do expect is a correct diagnosis, and trhe replacement of whichever component has failed.
Repair would not have cost the retailer anything since I was under the illusion that I would pay the price of that component in the same way as I paid the “engineer’s” call-out fee.
Was this man ‘qualified’ only to con elderly women into buying a new appliace because the old one must be written off?
0 replies Fair wear and tear is a valid exception to the 6 year rule but if your fridge needs replacing after less than 5 years how can that be fair wear and tear? Most people would agree that a fridge should last much longer than 5 years so if it is truly beyond economical repair you have a case for arguing it has not lasted a reasonable time. The problem is that honouring these consumer laws will cost retailers a fortune and they are trying to dodge the responsibility. If the people you bought it from refuse to offer any compensation you have no choice but to go to the small claims court and let them decide. If they decide in your favour though you will not be entitled to a full refund because you've had use of the appliance for almost 5 years. It could be decided for example that it's lasted around half as long as it reasonably should have and therefore you should get half your money back. There are some useful links in my consumer section I've read all the consumer advice about washing machines, I'm thinking of taking them to court
Fair wear and tear is a valid exception to the 6 year rule but if your fridge needs replacing after less than 5 years how can that be fair wear and tear? Most people would agree that a fridge should last much longer than 5 years so if it is truly beyond economical repair you have a case for arguing it has not lasted a reasonable time.
The problem is that honouring these consumer laws will cost retailers a fortune and they are trying to dodge the responsibility. If the people you bought it from refuse to offer any compensation you have no choice but to go to the small claims court and let them decide.
If they decide in your favour though you will not be entitled to a full refund because you’ve had use of the appliance for almost 5 years. It could be decided for example that it’s lasted around half as long as it reasonably should have and therefore you should get half your money back.
There are some useful links in my consumer section I’ve read all the consumer advice about washing machines, I’m thinking of taking them to court
0 replies The life of Fridge-Freezers I bought my L~G fridge-freezer less than five years ago from a reputable local retailer (RLR). >> It started running madly the side (and later the back) of the casing >> heating up. Only way to stop it was to switch off at the mains. >> I rang RLR who said they would send a man round for the standard call-out fee. >> He came, offered four equally unsatisfactory explanations: >> 1. I had been leaving the door open >> 2. the door-seal had Failed >> He then removed the grille at the back >> 3. it needed re-gassing >> 4. the capillaries were blocked. I asked what with. "With solids">> I queried this, how could it happen in a liquid/to gas/to liquid/to gas >> system. He gave no reply., but re-fixed the grille (8 screws) >> He then recommended I buy a new one - which would get me a £20 reduction >> of his bill, which he wrote out for £46 plus VAT. >> I gave him my cheque as in duty bound, but know I had been swindled
The life of Fridge-Freezers
I bought my L~G fridge-freezer less than five years ago from a reputable local retailer (RLR).
>> It started running madly the side (and later the back) of the casing >> heating up. Only way to stop it was to switch off at the mains.
>> I rang RLR who said they would send a man round for the standard call-out fee.
>> He came, offered four equally unsatisfactory explanations:
>> 1. I had been leaving the door open
>> 2. the door-seal had Failed
>> He then removed the grille at the back
>> 3. it needed re-gassing
>> 4. the capillaries were blocked. I asked what with. “With solids”>> I queried this, how could it happen in a liquid/to gas/to liquid/to gas >> system. He gave no reply., but re-fixed the grille (8 screws)
>> He then recommended I buy a new one – which would get me a £20 reduction >> of his bill, which he wrote out for £46 plus VAT.
>> I gave him my cheque as in duty bound, but know I had been swindled
0 replies Thanks for your contribution Nick: Retailers are bound by the UK's 6 year period (5 in Scotland) defined under the Sales of Goods Act. It's not a warranty period or guarantee period though, the only "guarantee" we get is from the manufacture which as we all know, "does not affect our statuary rights". It's just the period in which a consumer is entitled to take a retailer to court if they believe the goods they bought were not fit for purpose or haven't lasted a reasonable time. In my opinion any major product costing hundreds of pounds should not suffer a major breakdown within 6 years, especially one that renders it uneconomical to repair. The problem is that some products are so cheap one could argue it is naive to expect them to last more than 6 years anyway. If you buy a washing machine for £200 and use it to wash for a family of 5 and the main bearings or motor fails after 5 years it could be argued that it's still "reasonable" considering the work it's done and the relatively small amount it cost. In cases of "cheap" products it may need a small claims court to decide. I doubt there would be so much uncertainty though if a consumer has purchased an expensive product and it breaks down needing very expensive repairs within 5 or 6 years. The chances are though that the consumer will meet great resistance from the retailer and would need to be extremely insistent, stubborn and prepared to use the small claims court to get their "rights". At the moment the majority of consumers don't either realise the extent of their rights or aren't prepared to fight for them.
Thanks for your contribution Nick: Retailers are bound by the UK’s 6 year period (5 in Scotland) defined under the Sales of Goods Act. It’s not a warranty period or guarantee period though, the only “guarantee” we get is from the manufacture which as we all know, “does not affect our statuary rights”.
It’s just the period in which a consumer is entitled to take a retailer to court if they believe the goods they bought were not fit for purpose or haven’t lasted a reasonable time.
In my opinion any major product costing hundreds of pounds should not suffer a major breakdown within 6 years, especially one that renders it uneconomical to repair. The problem is that some products are so cheap one could argue it is naive to expect them to last more than 6 years anyway.
If you buy a washing machine for £200 and use it to wash for a family of 5 and the main bearings or motor fails after 5 years it could be argued that it’s still “reasonable” considering the work it’s done and the relatively small amount it cost.
In cases of “cheap” products it may need a small claims court to decide. I doubt there would be so much uncertainty though if a consumer has purchased an expensive product and it breaks down needing very expensive repairs within 5 or 6 years. The chances are though that the consumer will meet great resistance from the retailer and would need to be extremely insistent, stubborn and prepared to use the small claims court to get their “rights”. At the moment the majority of consumers don’t either realise the extent of their rights or aren’t prepared to fight for them.
0 replies As a retailer I feel very frustrated by the mixed messages we seem to be getting on the above issue. Only last week I read a leading trade paper that stated that retailers were not bound by a 6 year warranty period set down in European legislation. Like us, most retailers want to keep exsisting customers and would not begrudge going the extra mile to keep our customers happy. What would help on this issue would be a definate piece of Uk legislation on the matter to clear up once and for all the mixed messages that retailers seem to be getting.
As a retailer I feel very frustrated by the mixed messages we seem to be getting on the above issue.
Only last week I read a leading trade paper that stated that retailers were not bound by a 6 year warranty period set down in European legislation.
Like us, most retailers want to keep exsisting customers and would not begrudge going the extra mile to keep our customers happy. What would help on this issue would be a definate piece of Uk legislation on the matter to clear up once and for all the mixed messages that retailers seem to be getting.
Hi,
Hoping you can help.
We have a Zanussi oven which is 5 years, 4 months old. Today a gas engineer did a test on the oven and found that the oven was releasing over 500ppm carbon monoxide. The appliance has now been disconnected and the gas capped.
We got the appliance from AO.com, and I’m in touch with them, I’m waiting to hear back from their technical dept about the next steps.
The gas engineer advised that the product would still be within the customer rights act timescales, that the fault is definitely the cooker, and that it couldn’t be considered normal wear and tear. So that is what I’m working from.
Would you advise that the customer rights act is the right legislation to work within here, and if so, what would be reasonable for me to expect from the retailer, especially given the dangerous situation we have been put into through the sale of an appliance that has developed a dangerous fault within 6 years?
Many thanks,
Paul
Hello Paul. This is the second case of a gas oven appliance apparently causing carbon monoxide I’ve had reported this week. I am not a gas safe engineer, nor have I ever worked on gas appliances, so I can’t give expert advice on carbon monoxide.
The only time I’ve ever heard of carbon monoxide, it has always been related to an installation fault. A blocked flue, or a gas cooker grill being used with the door closed, or a gas cooker, grill or hob being used to heat a house and on for long periods. I’ve never heard of carbon monoxide being given off in dangerous quantities during normal use caused by a fault in the oven.
Did the engineer say exactly what fault was causing this? My understanding, which seems to be backed up by several searches on Google, is that carbon monoxide is a natural consequence of anything burning with a naked flame, but only created in dangerous quantities when insufficient oxygen is available or when a flue is blocked.
If your gas safe engineer is confident that your carbon monoxide is caused by a fault on the gas oven, and nothing to do with installation, then yes you are still within the 6 year period (in England) to be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 against the retailer.
Hi Andy,
Many thanks for taking the time to help me, this is much appreciated.
Yes, the gas safe engineer has said that the issue is ‘the internal failure of some part of the over housing causing incomplete combustion within the appliance’.
I’ve spoken to the retailer who is talking a lot about the appliance being out of warranty, however I have pointed out, as per your advice on this page, that the warranty is irrelevant here given the appliance is covered under the consumer rights act. They want me to get a report from the engineer that states the issue is either one of installation, an inherent fault, or that the appliance is beyond economical repair. If that is produced, they say they will discuss ‘depreciated refund’ based on how long I’ve had the appliance. My take is that I would reasonably expect the appliance not to be producing a dangerous level of CO within 6 years irrespective of age or frequency of use, and therefore I would expect a refund in full. Is this a reasonable position do you think based on the Customer Rights Act?
Many thanks again,
Paul
Hi Paul. No, they are entitled to do this. If an appliance has developed a fault which is beyond economical repair and the appliance has only lasted 5 years, the claim is that it should have lasted much longer.
If it is generally accepted that it should have lasted 10 years, it has only lasted half as long as it should have. If you’ve had 5 years use from it you will only be compensated for the 5 you’ve not had. So its normal that you would be entitled to 50% of the cost.
Hi Andy, thank you, that is helpful. :-)
Let us know how you get on. You should be able to claim for the cost of the report too. You should not lose out financially as a consequence of a breach of the Consumer Rights Act.
Hi Andy,
Apologies, me again. You said I should be able to claim for the cost of the report.
This is AO’s response to me when I said I would be anticipating them to pick up the cost of the report so that I am not left out of pocket – should the report show that there is an inherent fault in the appliance:
‘In terms of the charges for an inspection, due to the product being over 6 months old and outside of the manufacturers warranty period, the liability for any charges wouldn’t lie with us sadly so we would be unable to cover any costs incurred to prove this was sold inherently defective. Outside of 6 months, that responsibility does lie with the customer as outlined in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and so any charges we would be unable to accept liability for or make a payment towards I am very sorry.’
Do you have any advice here please?
Many thanks
Paul
Regarding your comment on March 13, 2023 at 8:31 pm where the retailer have said that they are not liable to refund you your costs in getting an independent report. I don’t believe what they are telling you is true. However, I am not an expert in consumer rights. I’ve done a lot of research into it, and had a lot to do with it, but I think you need to check with an official consumer rights group such as Which? or Citizens Advice.
When the retailer admits that they are liable to compensate you because the appliance that they sold you breached the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but then say that in order to get your rights you have to pay potentially £70 or more, completely undermines the whole concept of us having any rights.
What is the point of having consumer rights if we have to pay to get them? It’s insane. In the eyes of the consumer law, the retailer has broken the consumer rights act 2015, and therefore you are due compensation. You should not have to pay out money to get that compensation, which could in theory be even more than the compensation you might receive.
In my opinion, I think they are conflating 2 separate issues, either out of ignorance, or deliberate stalling. They are correct in saying that they are not liable for commissioning an independent report. That is up to the consumer. It’s a gamble we have to decide whether to take or not. If the independent report does not side with what we say, then we have lost that money. This obviously puts many people off. But anybody with even a remote concept of common sense should realise that if such a report confirms that we have a case, then this cost should be paid by the party that has been found to be in breach.
If what I’m saying is not true, then it would be an absolute and total disgrace. I know for a fact that if you sue somebody and win, then all of your costs, including any expert reports, are met by the loser.
Please let me know how you get on.