I still get people asking if I know of any washing machines with a hot water valve. This article gives a few suggestions – but you should read on first to fully understand the issue. It is not as simple as you might think. It could be a complete waste of your time looking for one.
Most washing machines now only have a cold water valve but many people instinctively don’t like this. We all know washing machines wash with hot water, so it seems crazy not to use the hot water we already have in our homes. Heating it all up from cold seems wasteful and unnecessary.
This apparent madness is even more annoying for people who have an environmentally friendly and economic source of hot water such as solar powered.
However, there is a good argument that because modern washing machines use so little water on wash – there is no need for a hot valve. It’s in fact more economical to use cold fill only on 40 ° washes for most (but not all) people as explained here – is a hot & cold fill washing machine more economical?.
What is the science behind cold fill only washing machines?
All this is explained fully in my article Should I buy a cold fill washing machine?
So are there any washing machines with a hot valve?
At the time of writing there are some LG & Statesman models with a hot valve. However, they don’t take in hot water at all unless you use a very hot wash cycle. There is alternatively a British made washing machine with a hot water valve. Ebac’s hot & cold fill washing machine is advertised as using, “Intelligent hot fill technology”.
Some Hotpoint washing machines appear to be hot and cold fill, but they are designed for cold fill because there’s only a cold fill hose supplied and a y-piece adaptor supplies both valves.
I suspect this is a temporary measure, and that subsequent models will just have the cold valve.
So hot and cold fill washing machines are currently very rare. But even if you find one, you need to know that the few I’ve seen rarely even use the hot water valve.
If most of your wash cycles are done at 40 degrees or less it will most likely never use the hot valve at all.
Related:
Several people have asked me if you can connect an environmentally friendly and economic hot supply to the cold valve to utilise it. The short answer is no, for more details read Don’t connect the hot water supply to the cold valve on cold fill washing machine
New comments on this topic have been closed. There were over 600 comments now trimmed down (below) to 233. There are very interesting discussions there.
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Sorry forgot to add, Biological detergents only irritate about 1 in 1000000 it is a common myth the irritate everybody with sensitive skin. I have dermatitis and eczema and am irritated by non bio and bio if not properly rinsed out. There is evedence for this, the UK is the only country to sell non-bio detergents, so is it only people in the UK that are allergic to them?
Hope that helps
Oliver
Oliver’s comments (posts 264 &265) are very interesting: I’m pleased to hear that the Bosch machines actually have a simple to use facility to initiate the higher rinse level.
Washerhelp (Andy) has explained several times that the long wash times are mainly to do with deliberately heating the water slowly to activate the bio enzymes and washing for a long time to compensate for the lack of water.
The answer, which Oliver has hinted at pretty clearly, is to have very simple user selectable options, rather like my Miele dishwasher does, so that you can tell the machine if you are using bio or non bio detergents and adjust the speed of water heating and so on accordingly.
I’m interested that Oliver says non-bio detergents are only sold in the UK: a relative who has lived in Germany for over 40 years uses non-bio washing powder in her Miele all-water (allewasser) (hot-fill) machine. As far as I know this is a German brand and not something that is imported. However, I agree that allergies to bio detergents specifically, rather than just to detergents full stop, are reported very rarely. I think the worries about the environmental impact of bio enzymes is probably a greater problem and that in itself is also very small (at least as yet).
The bottom line is that (as Oliver says) there should be CHOICE. We live in a society where we are constantly being told that we have choice, but in fact we have less than ever.
I’m only surprised that Miele don’t import their Allewasser machine: they make a pretty big thing about saying that all of their dishwashers can be connected to hot fill and that this is highly recommended to save energy and time (and money) – of course we know as Andy has often pointed out that Dishwashers SHOULD use much less water than a modern washing machine, but the reality is that many washing machines still use far more than a dishwasher, even on the wash part of the cycle alone).
I’m still convinced that it is only a matter of time before hot fill washers with high level rinses are back, but being hailed as “the latest” and “the best thing since sliced bread”……..maybe someone will invent a square wheel soon :-)
Hi Dave
If you look in the blog at Why don’t modern washing machines rinse properly? for all comments with my name on you will see we think on the same lines!!! Especially comment 60!!
Hmmmm very interesting that Miele do not bring the All water to the UK. Its as if manufacturers think they know better than the consumer!!
HTH
Oliver.
Got it in one! Manufacturers do think that they know better.
Fuuny – when I used to work in retail we were always taught that “the customer knows best: even when they are misguided, ill-informed, or downright wrong the customer still knows best.”
Doesn’t seem to apply anymore does it?
Glad it doesn’t apply any more Dave – it always was a pretty stupid rule.
The only reason Miele wouldn’t make it available is if they didn’t think it would sell. A handful of customers saying they’d buy one isn’t enough to justify launching a new model in the UK. However, it should be enough to at least make them think again and maybe they will. At the end of the day they will do what makes the most commercial sense.
Dave
I’ve worked in retail for a little while and was told the same s…!!
I absolutley DESPISE modern washing machines, where to start… poorly built ,don’t wash and rinse like they used to spinning is bad, not hot and cold fill, The wash times are absolutley rediculous what about the wear and tear on your clothing let alone the machine, I could go on forever!!!
I feel very passionate about this sort of thing, also a great interest of mine always keen to know how well my washer performs! The funny thing is my 15 year old Bosch is only 5 years younger than me, got it reconditioned from a specialist in Halifax!!
Had a Hotpoint previous to this and it was terrible only lasted two and a half years and the computer and timer went kaputt, the long cycle times were stupid, the Bosch has very short cycles and still washes better.
Also I believe you are from Yorkshire, I am as well….Brighouse W.Yorks, not too far from Crosslee (White Knight)!!
All the best
Oliver
Hi Dave/Andy
You are quite right about the ratings game being a load of (put here what you like)!! I said in an earlier post that for a modern washer to achieve an A rating for wash performance it must remove only 3% of the stain under strict laboratory tests, in other words not how you will use it at home.
Now on to small loads-I like you Dave am washing for one and the only full load I do in a week is my coloured load -mainly underware and jeans and other stuff! I do 4 loads on average -Coloureds @ 40, whites @ economy 60, bedding @ economy 60 and overalls/work clothes @ 40. So the others are little over half loads, but I don’t want filthy washing hanging around longer than a week, its awful to do that!
The energy rating are a selling point as you rightly say Dave, people will not buy a washer with anything less than a A rating, except me as it will use more water as more has to be heated thus not getting the A!
It looks like people are sheep when reading the rating on a washer, folk just want the cheapest to run, lowest water user, fastest spin and the list goes on. Then you get complaints-long washes, poor rinsing, early break downs etc.
Dave, Richard and myself obviously have minds of our own, makes a refreshing change, but some people think we are just being awkward. I say not we want what we want any ain’t that what Britain is about choices. But as Dave said in an earlier post that we have less choice than ever!!
All the best
Oliver the true Yorkshireman through and through!!!
Richard: I was told by Miele that the UK was the only European country that used hot water and everyone else used cold fill only. They eventually got sick of supplying only us with hot valves and made us in line with the rest of Europe when they made them all cold fill some years back.
Manufacturers cannot normally afford to make anything other than the same machines all over Europe for economies of scale.
There would have to be some serious mad conspiracy if all the talk from government sites, from environmental eco sites, from water saving sites and so on about modern cold-fill washers using less energy and water is totally false.
According to the calculator I used a modern A rated energy efficient washing machine uses 50% less water than one made 20 years ago.
OK, so on Monday I went and got a £9.99 plug-in power meter from Maplin’s as I said in post 285.
This morning I have done two loads of washing in my LG hot and cold fill washer – which actually takes in so little hot that it should really be called cold fill.
The first load was a 40 degree coloured synthetics wash and I left all the settings on default – specifically not the intensive was option, no steam, normal rinsing and 1400 spin.
The washer filled with water over a period of just under 5 minutes (as it always does) continually taking in a little, spraying it with the pumped “rain” system, then checking teh water level and adding more until it was satisfied.
The wash then commenced and in less than 2 minutes (according to the countdown on the machine) the energy meter shot up from a little under 400 watts / 12 watts (depending on whether the drum was turning or standing still) to 2750 watts / 3160 watts (again according to drum rotating or not) – so that’ll be the heater (rated 2500 watts on the back of the machine) kicking in. The machine merrily continued to consume this high amount of electricity for a little over 30 minutes and then dropped back to the lower values. Pressing the “Temp” button on the control panel whilst the machine is running displays the current water temperature in teh drum, so I did this and the display told me 45 degrees C (this is a 40 degree wash remember!)
The timer display showed 1 hour 16 minutes left at this stage (the washer started at 2 hours 12 and dropped to 1 hour 50 pretty much as soon as the filling process stopped).
The wash continued for another 6 or 7 minutes, with a very short (less than 1 minute) burst of high power consumption again only a couple of minutes before the wash phases ended and then drained.
I won’t detail the rest of the cycle – it was just the usual 4 spins interspersed with 3 low level rinses.
When the washer stopped after the final spin I looked at the total energy used on the plug in power meter: 2.424 kWh – so 2.5 units of electricity.
I then started off teh Whites wash which I did on eth defualt settings for “rapid start” – on this machine when you first press the power button the machine defaults to a 60 degree cotton wash with “normal” rinses and 1400 spin. No steam and no intensive wash. I don’t usually use this programme but as it’s teh one that teh energy rating is tested on to get the A++ rating and the “energy saving trust recommended” sticker that is proudly displayed on the front of the machine, I thought it was a good one to use for this experiment too.
The timer started at 2 hours 12 minutes again – as it did for the 40 degree wash – and the fill process again took about 5 minutes. Once the filling hd stopped there was a drop in time from 2 hours 12 (which did not change all through teh filling process) to 2 hours 2 minutes and more or less at the same moment the energy meter shot up to 2750 watts / 3160 watts again.
The wash progressed and the high energy consumption continued for just over 35 minutes (so not that much longer than the 40 degree wash) and then dropped back to around 400 watts when the drum was turning. Pressing the Temp button revealed that the machine thought the water was now at 52 degrees (for a 60 degree wash?) the wash continued for about 16 minutes longer and then the energy meter showed the high consumption again (and pressing the temp button revealed that the water was now at 48 degrees). The machine heated for 7 minutes (bringing the water to 57 degrees) then the energy level fell to 400 watts, the drum turned round once, the drain pump kicked in and the washer emptied.
Again, I won’t detail the spins and rinses – pointless – but I left the washer to it’s own devices and returned when I heard it stop after the last spin.
This time the energy meter showed a total consumption of 2.67 kWh.
Now, I’m not going to speculate or comment on the Energy Rating Labels again but slightly over 5 kWh to do 2 wash cycles on the most economical settings this machine has doesn’t impress me much (with apologies to Shania Twain!) when compared to my old Hoover Electron 1100 which did the same two cycles in slightly under half the time and at a guess used about 2 thirds of the electricity (I base my guess on the fact that the Hoover did the same rinses and spins regardless of what the wash was and took about 1 hour and maybe 2 or 3 minutes for a hot “Whites economy” wash (which was actually 75 degrees) and about 50 minutes for a “non fast coloureds” (which was 40 degrees). I well appreciate the point that Andy has often made that newer machines hold more washing and I also accept the point that we discussed on here recently that the energy labels are based on kWh per kilo of load; however the fact remains that filling with hot water would have cut down on teh energy used on this wash significantly and, I presume, would also have shortened the wash time.
The other thing that I have thought about this morning whilst doing this is that Andy has often said that newer machines heat the water slowly to allow Bio detergents to work: well my LG doesn’t!! Switching the heater on within 2 or 3 minutes of filling and heating it at full power is as fast as it can go. A more powerful element would be the only way to heat the water faster and that would not be possible on a 13 amp plug as the load of heater and motor at once is already over kWh and the maximum load for a 13 Amp fuse / plug / socket is 3250 watts – so I don’t quite know what’s going on here but it seems pretty clear to me that the need for cold fill and slow heating to use Bio detergents is another fallacy that has been blown out of the water.
Very interesting Dave. Your old Hoover electron 1100 had a 4.5 kg drum (or 5Kg if it was post 1990s). The chances are your new LG has a 6 or even 7 kg drum. This means it washes a lot more laundry, and even if it used more energy it is more efficient because it washes more laundry at a time. With a 7 kg drum it will be significantly more efficient as it can wash almost twice as much.
Your old Hoover electron 1100 also used more water on wash. Therefore it would have used a lot more energy to heat it all up to 40 Degrees and to 60 Degrees. Even if a modern 7Kg capacity washing machine uses a similar amount as the old 4.5kg drum you are washing much more laundry at a time which is more efficient.
Also, unless you can connect your old 1100 Hoover washing machine up to this new energy meter adapter you can’t say it’s a fair comparison because you are making assumptions about the energy usage of the old machine and only have figures for your new one. Therefore I suspect that your new washing machine is much more energy efficient and uses less water than your old Hoover 1100.
Having said that I’m sure that your old Hoover 1100 rinsed the laundry much better and washed the laundry much quicker – possibly even better.
Another point I was going to make regarding a previous recent comment is that no one has explained the following. If, as yourself and Oliver are convinced, it is more economical to use a hot water valve, then it doesn’t make much sense that at a time when washing machines have never been under so much scrutiny regarding the energy they use, and there has never been such fierce competition amongst all manufacturers to be able to proudly boast that their washing machine uses the least energy – that they are all still cold fill?
Why would it be that not a single manufacturer has fitted a hot valve if it would make their washing machine use less energy? Even if reintroducing the hot valve added extra cost to the washing machine I can’t see this as being too much of a concern because the extra sales would be generated by being cheaper to use than all the competitors.