I still get people asking if I know of any washing machines with a hot water valve. This article gives a few suggestions – but you should read on first to fully understand the issue. It is not as simple as you might think. It could be a complete waste of your time looking for one.
Most washing machines now only have a cold water valve but many people instinctively don’t like this. We all know washing machines wash with hot water, so it seems crazy not to use the hot water we already have in our homes. Heating it all up from cold seems wasteful and unnecessary.
This apparent madness is even more annoying for people who have an environmentally friendly and economic source of hot water such as solar powered.
However, there is a good argument that because modern washing machines use so little water on wash – there is no need for a hot valve. It’s in fact more economical to use cold fill only on 40 ° washes for most (but not all) people as explained here – is a hot & cold fill washing machine more economical?.
What is the science behind cold fill only washing machines?
All this is explained fully in my article Should I buy a cold fill washing machine?
So are there any washing machines with a hot valve?
At the time of writing there are some LG & Statesman models with a hot valve. However, they don’t take in hot water at all unless you use a very hot wash cycle. There is alternatively a British made washing machine with a hot water valve. Ebac’s hot & cold fill washing machine is advertised as using, “Intelligent hot fill technology”.
Some Hotpoint washing machines appear to be hot and cold fill, but they are designed for cold fill because there’s only a cold fill hose supplied and a y-piece adaptor supplies both valves.
I suspect this is a temporary measure, and that subsequent models will just have the cold valve.
So hot and cold fill washing machines are currently very rare. But even if you find one, you need to know that the few I’ve seen rarely even use the hot water valve.
If most of your wash cycles are done at 40 degrees or less it will most likely never use the hot valve at all.
Related:
Several people have asked me if you can connect an environmentally friendly and economic hot supply to the cold valve to utilise it. The short answer is no, for more details read Don’t connect the hot water supply to the cold valve on cold fill washing machine
New comments on this topic have been closed. There were over 600 comments now trimmed down (below) to 233. There are very interesting discussions there.
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Hi. I have a mains pressure hot water system that gives MORE pressure from the hot taps in my house than the cold mains water. The tank is in the garage and it is quite a short run to the washing machine. A hot and cold fill machine might be a good idea in this scenario; it would almost certainly allow hot water in before filling completely.
But that got me thinking, what about fitting a thermostatic mixer valve behind a cold fill only machine, set to say 25 degrees C. Thus on a 30 degree program, the machine would only top up the temp by the necessary 5 degrees, thus using considerably less electricity and speeding up wash times?
Unless the flaw in my theory is that the machines use HUGE quantities of rinsing waterand would waste gallons of stored hot water whilst rinsing at 25C? Anyone know roughly how much is used for rinsing?
Mark: Modern washing machines use very little water these days. However rinsing needs to be done in cold water, I would guess the colder the better. Warm water may cause soapsuds to be reactivated apart from it being a waste.
A common misconception is that washing machines take much longer to wash these days because they are cold fill, whereas the truth is that this adds very little wash time to most washes which are commonly only 40 %deg; or less. The main reason washing machines take so long to wash is so that they achieve A wash efficiency ratings – especially as they need to use less electricity. Manufacturers need the wash water to be cold to start with because this has been proven to give much better wash results when using biological detergents.
You have to remember that any hot water drawn into a washing machine also causes a load of hot water to be drawn into the pipework between the washing machine valve and the boiler or hot water tank. In other words if a washing machine needs to take in 4 L of hot water it could result in at least double that amount been drawn into the pipework. At least the first few litres would probably be cold because they have cooled down after being left in the pipework after the last time will hot water was drawn.
Also, in the majority of houses in the UK hot water is supplied through a hot water storage tank. This means all the water that runs out of the tank into the pipes and the washing machine is replaced by stone cold water from a header tank which then needs to be heated up. The result is that due to the very small amounts of water needed in most washing machines for the wash fill it is generally much more efficient to use cold water and heat up only the amount of water the washing machine needs. Drawing it from most hot water systems is much less efficient and more wasteful in most cases.
Related links:
Why do modern washing machines take so long to wash?
Economy wash programmes take much longer – why?
I’ve been running off the cold water in the hot water pipes (into watering cans etc for use elsewhere) until it gets warm before putting on the washing machine for years. I also switch off the cold water for the first 5 minutes, so the higher pressure doesn’t swamp the machine with cold. We have solar heated water. However, it looks like my 24 year old machine is finally giving up the ghost. I’m quite depressed to think its not worth using the free hot water if I get a new one, though I suppose the good news is that most people use much less energy to wash their clothes these days.
Very interestingreading here all round.
I have a 25 year old Hoover Electron 1100. Sadly the drum bearings are about shot and I guess I’ll have to buy new soon.
My hot water comes from solar panels and the gas boiler as backup. It’s gravity fed and the cylinder is less than 3 feet away from the washer. Since long before having solar the hot water pipe to the washer tap has been 22mm to get a good flow.
Each week I wash, on average, 3 loads – 2 “whites economy” which is hot fill ONLY (60 degree wash) and 1 “non fast coloureds” which is hot and cold fill and washes at 40 degrees. I use ecover non bio automatic powder and enjoy excellent results. The whites washes last barely 90 minutes from start to end of last spin and the non fast coloureds are generally done in under an hour. Two questions:
1) does anyone know if the LG machines (which I have researched a lot but still can’t find an answer to this question) fill with ONLY Hot on the 60 degree washes and mixed hot and cold on the 40 degree
2) can any manufacturer or government agency give a really believable explanation as to how a solar water heated hoursehold doing lots of hot washes and few cool ones can possibly be better off with cold fill only?
Incidentally my Miele dishwasher will accept hot water fill which it gets from the solar heated cylinder and the standard wash time on that went down from 2 hours nd 25 minutes when it was on the cold feed only that my old dishwasher had to 1 hour 36 minutes on hot fill – nd I saw a difference in the electricity bill straight away.
IMHO this issue is nothing at all to do with energy saving but is simply a way to avoid addressing the issue of badly thought out plumbing arrangements leading to new, low water consumption machines, failing to draw hot water from older, ill-planned, hot water supplies and silly combi boilers that take so long to fire up that they don’t supply the hot soon enough.
Look forward to any info re the LG’s please.
I’ve spoken to LG customer services and according to the adviser i spoke to this is how LG washing machines currently utilise hot water.
(Paraphrased) “If you select a 60 degree wash the washing machine takes in hot water a bit at a time. It has a sensor in the drum that checks the temperature. If the water coming in is over 60 degrees it will take in cold instead. If it is below 60 degrees it will take it in”.
I must say that all through the conversation he sounded unsure and didn’t convince me that he was confident he was describing accurately how this works. He did confirm this is how it works but he didn’t sound sure to me.
Also, don’t forget that even if this is how they work, there is still every chance that most people would get very little hot water into the washing machine because of small amount drawn in combined with the long pipe runs and cooling in the pipework described in the main article.
Anyone who is interested in this should contact LG UK themselves to clarify
Hi, i have a new LGWD(M)-16331 H&C fill. Unfortunately on 60 and 90 degree washes it only draws a cup of hot from the combi and completes the wash using cold. If the hoses are reversed it still only draws the cup full and then washes in hot (thinking it is cold) if the cold is turned off it only draws the cup full then spends the rest of the cycle trying to draw cold!! I’ve written to L&G 3 times to try and find out how much hot it should draw on 60 and 90 washes for 4, 6 and 8kg loads without success. They give poor and misleading replies (as you suspected in an earlier post) and have directed me to a Government energy saving website!!! Basically LG customer service is useless so i think my next step is to go to trading standards, or are you aware of a better option? Readers should not touch an LG machine with a barge pole if you are considering it for it’s supposed H&C properties.
Very interesting experience Albert. I woudl very much like to hear anything else that you find out, from whatever source. I was on the point of buying an LG, precisely for H&C fill, a few weeks ago, then I cancelled the order when the local Hoover shop (who use dto service my Hoover washer) said they woudl never recommend LG. However, when I asked them *why* they don’t recommend they could only say “it’s not a brand we stock”. Not very helpful or informative; but your experience is most enlightening.
Going off at a tangent, I notice that LG launched their steam washer a while ago and that 2 other brands (stocked by Curry’s) now offer steam wash too. How long, I wonder, before everything comes full circle and other manufacturers start to do extra rinse water, higher level wash water, H&C fill, etc., etc., so that they can keep competing!!!! Before long someone will re-invent the wheel and we’ll have sensible washers again…………..I hope anyway!!!
Just an afterthought from my previous post…..Albert – you say you have a combi boiler……my (very limited) experience of those contraptions suggests that they take a significant length of time to deliver any warm water after opening the tap (the time for the boiler to trigger the ignition device, light the gas, then the flames actually get to work and finally some warm water). Something that Washerhelp said a while back is lurking in the back of my mind: I seem to recall a suggestion from an LG employee that their machines detect the temp. of the incoming water and if it’s not “to their liking” they cut off the hot and just use the cold. It’s only a thought, but could your “hot” water actually be too cold for the LG to recognise it and does it herefore assume that there is no hot in the hot supply and ignore it? Washerhalp – any ideas? or am I just barking up totally the wrong tree?
Hello Albert:
Yes, I said in a previous comment I had an explanation (quoted below) but I felt he wasn’t confident that what he was saying was accurate and could not accept his explanation with any confidence –
Your quest for an explanation of how much hot water the LG washing machine should take in is very important for people trying to decide if LG offers the answer to cold fill washing machines.
According to the explanation I received it should take in a combination of hot and cold water as long as this combination doesn’t exceed 60 Degrees but only on hot washes. If there is a thermostatic sensor in the drum checking the temperature as described by the LG helpline operator it’s not an ideal place to put it. Surely it should be at the point of entry of the water.
It’s a bit harsh to say people shouldn’t touch them with a barge pole, at least they do have a hot water valve. But I do agree that unless the washing machine uses this hot valve it would be fair to say it’s pretty pointless.
LG washing machines don’t use the hot water valve on most washes, but they do say they should use it on 60 and 90 Degree washes. However if your hot water is already 60 Degrees or higher then it is unlikely it will use much if they are actually sensing the temperature of the incoming water. Most people’s hot water should be set at 60 Degrees.
The problem is that if it took in hot water alone on a 60 Degree wash the water would be already at the correct wash temperature. This is not ideal because if using biological detergents the 60 Degree water temperature kills off the enzymes which are responsible for the biological cleaning.
Basically washing machine manufacturers currently believe (or have discovered) that the best wash results come from washing in initially cold water. As this water is gently heated up, slowly activating the enzymes, the laundry is washed much more thoroughly and is more likely to get an A or A+ wash efficiency rating. This is as likely an explanation as to why hot valves were removed as the fact that it is supposed to be more economical to heat up only a small amount of water needed.
To be honest I can’t help thinking that the hot water valve on and LG washing machine is of little advantage especially to the vast majority of people. It could simply be that LG have just not got round to redesigning their machines to be cold fill only. It is quite an anomaly for LG to be the only washing machine manufacturer (as far as I know) still fitting a hot valve when all other manufacturers including ones making the best washing machines in the world are now cold fill.
If LG believe a hot valve offers advantages they should use it properly and let customers know what the advantages are. As far as I’m aware LG are not boasting that they are the only manufacturer still fitting a hot water valve. They are not taking advantage of this fact, and don’t appear to be trying to appeal to customers who are unhappy with cold fill only washing machines. This is strange to me. Either they think it is better to stick with a hot valve and should give reasons why and use it efficiently. Or they might as well move over to cold fill only like most other manufacturers.
Dave: Your experience of the advice from the local Hoover shop shows how untrustworthy advice from people selling washing machines can be. Their advice is very often based on a vested interest or sometimes even mild brainwashing by the manufacturers they are selling convincing them they are the best.
I once had an experience where I went into a local electricity board shop before they were privatised. There was a smartly dressed saleswoman who I approached and asked about Hoover washer dryer. This was in the days when washer dryers were pretty new. I was interested in what she thought of the Hoover washer dryer as I was trading as a Hoover sales dealer at the time and specialised in Hoover washing machines. She immediately steered me away from the Hoover, and walked me over to an Ariston washer dryer where she continued to “sell” it to me, dismissing the Hoover. I eventually let her know I was actually in the trade and wasn’t actually buying, and she then told me she didn’t even work for the electricity board and that she was a visiting rep from Ariston.
The point you make about Alberts combi boiler should be equally applicable to any hot water supply. So if you are right then the problem should occur regardless of the type of boiler you use. All water coming into a washing machine is usually cold for a good 30 seconds or more before any hot starts to run in. This is precisely one of the reasons why manufacturers say it is pointless trying to get hot water in. It didn’t matter before, when they took in gallons, because when the hot water did eventually start to run in it could still contribute a reasonable percentage of the over all water intake. But now they only take in about a bowl full of water it’s all over bar the shouting before most people will get any really hot water into the machine.