My attention was drawn to rinsing efficiency after noticing that out of dozens of washing machines reviewed by Which? most of them had a poor rating for rinsing. Even those singled out as Best Buys were “poor” at rinsing. Believe it or not, at least one Best Buy was “very poor”. I found that pretty shocking.
From studying the figures it is clear that if “good”, or “very good” rinsing was one of the prerequisites for a Best Buy there would be no Best Buy washing machines or washer dryers at all – not a single one. It appears that Which? have decided to allow the poor rinsing results to be a caveat instead of a best buy killer. Please note however that several Which? best buys are “satisfactory” at rinsing which is something at least.
Out of 125 washing machines and washer dryers tested, a remarkable 75 of them (60%) were rated either “poor” or “very poor” at rinsing with only 3 getting the rating we should expect for all washing machines which is “good”.
The rest were a mere “satisfactory”. To summarise, just less than 3 % of the 125 washers & dryers are “good” at rinsing according to Which?
Since writing this article I’ve discovered Which? no longer give the majority of washing machines 1 or 2 star ratings for rinsing ability, and the majority appear to get 3 or 4 stars. Which? tell me they’ve readjusted their rinse marks to more accurately reflect the degrees of abilities between even poor rinsing machines. However, they are still critical of many of their rinsing abilities in the comments and the pros and cons.
What does this mean?
Well for a start it doesn’t mean that we can settle for one of the three washing machines that are “good” at rinsing because they unfortunately let themselves down in other areas such as with “noisy spin, and poor brand reliability”. However, if you really need a washing machine that rinses better than any other – maybe because of allergies – then at least Which? have identified three candidates out of the 125 they’ve tested so far.
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Why aren’t they rinsing properly and does it really matter?
Surely all washing machines should rinse well? It’s surely quite simple, you just use enough water to rinse them properly. It’s astounding that we have reached the situation where the majority of washing machines and washer dryers on sale in the UK are apparently poor at rinsing.
This has probably come about because people have been focussing on other aspects, which has left rinsing as a low priority. Two explanations spring to mind. Firstly, the focus on using less and less water is clearly impacting on our washing machine’s ability to rinse effectively. Whereas modern detergents can facilitate efficient and effective washing results at lower temperatures and with less water, no such product is currently allowing effective rinsing with much less water.
Good rinsing needs plenty of water which is in direct opposition to the current environmental concerns and clamour to be the washing machine using the least amount of water.
Eco LabelsThe second explanation I can think of is that the eco-labelling system which awards ratings for energy efficiency, spin efficiency and wash efficiency do not appear to take into account rinse efficiency.
As such, manufacturers aren’t being judged on how well their washing machines rinse, only on how well they wash and how well they extract water on spin. I’m speculating at this stage, but I can’t see how so many washing machines could be awarded an “A” wash efficiency rating if the tests took into account how well the clothes were rinsed. Presumably, as long as all stains are removed and laundry looks “clean” no one bothers about how much soap detergent residue is left.
It might be a good idea to create a fourth category, “rinse efficiency” on the eco labels, or at least include the rinse efficiency as part of the wash efficiency test.
Ultimately if customers don’t notice an issue then it could be argued that it doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it doesn’t for most people, but it surely does to anyone sensitive to wash detergents and with allergies and a lot of people are. There were 581 comments added on this topic from such people before I had to close comments to prevent it being endless.
The current situation is that to anyone keen to buy a washing machine with good rinsing I have no washing machine to recommend because none of the companies producing the best, and the most reliable washing machines currently supply one that rinses above average according to Which? although this could easily change and you would need to check out the latest to be sure.
Are Which? being too critical? Are Which? applying too stringent a rinse test? I must admit I’ve not had many complaints from people saying their washing machine isn’t rinsing properly and my own Miele washing machine, which although a Which? Best Buy, didn’t receive a “good” rating for rinsing yet it appears to rinse perfectly well as far as we can see.
In fact I remarked to my wife that my clothes don’t smell of detergent like they used to in the old washing machine and deduced that it rinsed much better. However, neither of us have any reactions to washing machine detergent. The thing about Which? is that they are totally independent.
They work only for their subscribers interests and are actually a registered charity. They don’t make any money directly by recommending any product (even though they could) because they want to be seen as 100% unbiased. They are highly respected and I expect they test products fairly. However, my understanding is that the do charge for companies to display their “Best Buy” logo!
I suspect Which? are right and that modern washing machines don’t generally rinse very well because of the reasons I speculate about above. Whether it matters or whether it will change depends on whether enough of the public are bothered, or even notice. The 581 comments added to this article below show that many people do find this a big issue.
Which? research
NOTE: Which? do rate some washing machines as satisfactory for rinsing and even a couple are rated as good, although unfortunately the few rated good (so far) are not so good on reliability.
Which? are constantly reviewing washing machines so if rinsing is particularly important to you it makes sense to become a member and see all the buying advice. I can’t print their advice for copyright reasons.
Here’s how they describe their reviews –
We are of course well known for our traditional product testing. And when we test something like the proverbial washing machine, we will ask the laboratory not only to measure how clean the clothes get, but how much water and energy is used? How easy is it to work out the programmes? What is the machine like on specialist cycles? How long does it take? All these things feed into our best buy criteria.
We will devise the testing schedule by looking at things from the ordinary user’s point of view: and if standard industry methods are not good enough we will devise our own methods ”
Causes of poor rinsing
There are some common causes of poor rinsing even in washing machines that do rinse well that it might be useful to point out. Anyone experiencing poor rinsing problems where washing comes out with detergent residues or white powder streaks should read this – White streaks or residual washing powder after washing
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Andy,
These machines are not blocked, I have already had them in bits! The problem is instead of starting to spin slowly, they are going up to about 650rpm straight away, meaning the pump cannot cope. So it foams up the detergent and then will not go it just throws it down the door and around the tank until it starts filling for the next rinse!
My old Bosch starts spinning at about 100rpm and takes it from there up to about 400rpm, this machine never suds locks.
All the best
Oliver
Hello Oliver. On wash the spin is to force the detergent through the laundry, it shouldn’t energise the pump it should just throw all the water about and soap suds will be very evident. Then it should continue with the wash. Hope we are talking about the same thing.
Hi Andy
I mean the intermediate spins ie. between the rinses to supposably clear the water from the load from the previous rinse!
This is the programme sequence if it helps….
Wash – intermediate spin – rinse – int.spin – rinse – int.spin – rinse-int.spin – rinse – final spin.
All the best
Oliver.
Hi Oliver / Andy and all readers.
Thanks for referring me to this board Oliver: most interesting.
This suds-locking things is def for real Andy: my LG is a real bugger for it.
In the case of the LG the problem is caused by a combination of factors:
1. in the wash phase of the cycle the duration is excessive (about an hour on most programmes) and the agitation is very vigorous (which is good). This means that vast amounts of foam are created on every wash.
2. When the wash ends the LG spins (it does NOT spin at all with water in as you suggest many modern ones do) but it spins before any rinses start. This results in a very unpleasant sound and you can hear the motor labouring greatly and the drum slowing down as huge white tides of foam flow down the door.
3. when the rinses start there is, as I have so often moaned about on the hot fill board, insufficient water, so the rinses turn into 2nd, 3rd and 4th wash phases with the soap that’s left.
I get round this quite easily though – as mentioned in a post higher up this board I run water into the soap drawer if I am around to do so, and I do this on the first rinse or sometimes even at the wash phase (like the old “dilution rinse” that Hoover’s used to have). If I am not likely to be around when the rinses start I Select “rinse ++” which on the LG gets water up to about 1/4 up the door and also heats up all the rinses to 30 degrees to help dissolve the detergent better. I have to say that this is pretty good rinsing, but the drawback is time (and energy use). On a 60 degree white wash the standard time is 2h12m, but with Rinse++ selected it’s 3h50m.
Oliver – mum has a Miele Prestige PLus and with the “water plus” selected it washes in water that just reaches the bottom of the door glass, does a dilution rinse (adds water to the wash water up to 1/3 up the door) and then does all it’s rinses 1/3 way up the door too. Mum had a Hoover Electron 1100 (same as mine) before that – we bought hem at the same time when I first left home in 1983 and mum’s finally died 2 years ago, mine last July. Both of us dislike the new machines we have but Hoover are now so unreliable that we decided not to get them again. However, since mum started using the “water plus” she says the Miele is as good as the old Hoover except that it only takes cold water so it costs more to run. If your Bosch ever packs up completely you might like to reconsider Miele for a model with “water plus”.
Dave
I’m aware of the “water plus” feature, but have heard that Mieles also suds lock, actually from what I’ve found out near enough all modern machines do it. Also have read copies of instruction manuals for Mieles and they only do 2 rinses, my Bosch does 4.
Washers just arn’t as good as they used to be!!
On the Easy-care (synthetic) cycles my Bosch uses the dilution rinsing so as to avoid excessive creasing to the fabrics. The Bosch rinses absolutley perfecly so long as “Higher water level” is selected.
The worst rinsing I have come across is on a very reliable Siltal integral washer, my mums to be precise, the quality is brilliant but the rinsing that famous Yorkshire word sh1te!!!
I know a good engineer that should be able to keep the Bosch running for some time yet, aprenticed by a nice fella at Yeadon!
HTH
Oliver
PS. Post for you in Hot valve blog!!
It seems I was talking about something different due to misinterpreting the “intermediate spins” phrase. I thought it was referring to the spins during wash and rinse that some machines do with the water still inside. In the old days that would only happen if something went wrong but these days it’s used to force water through the laundry.
Andy
I was unaware that modern machines spun with water and or detergent in them to aid cleaning. Sounds like a stupid idea as that really will fill the drum and tank with huge torrants of foam, and that WILL decrease rinse efficiency. No wonder you was unsure what I mean’t by intermediate spins!!
This sounds really bad coming from a 20 year old but I preferred the way things used to be not the way they are now! Everytime they supposably redesign the humble washing machine I am always sceptical of what has happened. Lets face they are deffinatley not improving them, quite the reverse infact!!
I am deffinatley going to hang on to my Bosch forever if possible it may look old fashioned but it does a far superior job to the modern machines, I just can’t begin to tell people how good it is compared the new “improved” washers!!
HTH
Oliver
Oliver,
the recon Bosch sounds interesting, but I can’t find anyone selling them. Could you say where you got it?
David,
My Bosch WFF2000 was bought at the-Washer Shop in Halifax West Yorkshire!! Got it for £145 with a 12 month warranty and free delivery. Be wary of the new Bosch machines though as the rinsing is rubbish, look for one about 12-15 years old if possible, other option Hotpoint of similar age they were built properly back then!
What matters unless these products contain any sort of bleach they will shorten the life of the washing machine-in particular the drum spider. To counteract this you will be doing a hell of a lot of maintenance washes with ORDINARY bleach containing powder.
Oliver
Making an effort to be environmentally friendly is a good thing. But now it’s doing the reverse!!
In this page you read that people are being forced to fill their washing machines with extra water to rinse properly which defeats the purpose of saving water. If washing machines rinsed properly without using excessive amounts of water you achieve the goal of being environmentally friendly. On the other hand, if you use so little water to be environmentally friendly that people end up filling their washers with too much water for a decent rinse, again you defeat the purpose.
I’ve heard of people having problems with their toilets blocking because they don’t use enough water to flush, so they have to flush more than once and end up using more water than they were meant to save!
If we want products to work properly and be environmentally friendly at the same time, manufacturers need to thoroughly test them in the real world. Also appliances, cars etc need to be more reliable so you don’t have to dispose of them so often. I don’t see many environmentally friendly manufacturers making their products as reliable as they were 30 years ago.