My attention was drawn to rinsing efficiency after noticing that out of dozens of washing machines reviewed by Which? most of them had a poor rating for rinsing. Even those singled out as Best Buys were “poor” at rinsing. Believe it or not, at least one Best Buy was “very poor”. I found that pretty shocking.
From studying the figures it is clear that if “good”, or “very good” rinsing was one of the prerequisites for a Best Buy there would be no Best Buy washing machines or washer dryers at all – not a single one. It appears that Which? have decided to allow the poor rinsing results to be a caveat instead of a best buy killer. Please note however that several Which? best buys are “satisfactory” at rinsing which is something at least.
Out of 125 washing machines and washer dryers tested, a remarkable 75 of them (60%) were rated either “poor” or “very poor” at rinsing with only 3 getting the rating we should expect for all washing machines which is “good”.
The rest were a mere “satisfactory”. To summarise, just less than 3 % of the 125 washers & dryers are “good” at rinsing according to Which?
Since writing this article I’ve discovered Which? no longer give the majority of washing machines 1 or 2 star ratings for rinsing ability, and the majority appear to get 3 or 4 stars. Which? tell me they’ve readjusted their rinse marks to more accurately reflect the degrees of abilities between even poor rinsing machines. However, they are still critical of many of their rinsing abilities in the comments and the pros and cons.
What does this mean?
Well for a start it doesn’t mean that we can settle for one of the three washing machines that are “good” at rinsing because they unfortunately let themselves down in other areas such as with “noisy spin, and poor brand reliability”. However, if you really need a washing machine that rinses better than any other – maybe because of allergies – then at least Which? have identified three candidates out of the 125 they’ve tested so far.
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Why aren’t they rinsing properly and does it really matter?
Surely all washing machines should rinse well? It’s surely quite simple, you just use enough water to rinse them properly. It’s astounding that we have reached the situation where the majority of washing machines and washer dryers on sale in the UK are apparently poor at rinsing.
This has probably come about because people have been focussing on other aspects, which has left rinsing as a low priority. Two explanations spring to mind. Firstly, the focus on using less and less water is clearly impacting on our washing machine’s ability to rinse effectively. Whereas modern detergents can facilitate efficient and effective washing results at lower temperatures and with less water, no such product is currently allowing effective rinsing with much less water.
Good rinsing needs plenty of water which is in direct opposition to the current environmental concerns and clamour to be the washing machine using the least amount of water.
Eco LabelsThe second explanation I can think of is that the eco-labelling system which awards ratings for energy efficiency, spin efficiency and wash efficiency do not appear to take into account rinse efficiency.
As such, manufacturers aren’t being judged on how well their washing machines rinse, only on how well they wash and how well they extract water on spin. I’m speculating at this stage, but I can’t see how so many washing machines could be awarded an “A” wash efficiency rating if the tests took into account how well the clothes were rinsed. Presumably, as long as all stains are removed and laundry looks “clean” no one bothers about how much soap detergent residue is left.
It might be a good idea to create a fourth category, “rinse efficiency” on the eco labels, or at least include the rinse efficiency as part of the wash efficiency test.
Ultimately if customers don’t notice an issue then it could be argued that it doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it doesn’t for most people, but it surely does to anyone sensitive to wash detergents and with allergies and a lot of people are. There were 581 comments added on this topic from such people before I had to close comments to prevent it being endless.
The current situation is that to anyone keen to buy a washing machine with good rinsing I have no washing machine to recommend because none of the companies producing the best, and the most reliable washing machines currently supply one that rinses above average according to Which? although this could easily change and you would need to check out the latest to be sure.
Are Which? being too critical? Are Which? applying too stringent a rinse test? I must admit I’ve not had many complaints from people saying their washing machine isn’t rinsing properly and my own Miele washing machine, which although a Which? Best Buy, didn’t receive a “good” rating for rinsing yet it appears to rinse perfectly well as far as we can see.
In fact I remarked to my wife that my clothes don’t smell of detergent like they used to in the old washing machine and deduced that it rinsed much better. However, neither of us have any reactions to washing machine detergent. The thing about Which? is that they are totally independent.
They work only for their subscribers interests and are actually a registered charity. They don’t make any money directly by recommending any product (even though they could) because they want to be seen as 100% unbiased. They are highly respected and I expect they test products fairly. However, my understanding is that the do charge for companies to display their “Best Buy” logo!
I suspect Which? are right and that modern washing machines don’t generally rinse very well because of the reasons I speculate about above. Whether it matters or whether it will change depends on whether enough of the public are bothered, or even notice. The 581 comments added to this article below show that many people do find this a big issue.
Which? research
NOTE: Which? do rate some washing machines as satisfactory for rinsing and even a couple are rated as good, although unfortunately the few rated good (so far) are not so good on reliability.
Which? are constantly reviewing washing machines so if rinsing is particularly important to you it makes sense to become a member and see all the buying advice. I can’t print their advice for copyright reasons.
Here’s how they describe their reviews –
We are of course well known for our traditional product testing. And when we test something like the proverbial washing machine, we will ask the laboratory not only to measure how clean the clothes get, but how much water and energy is used? How easy is it to work out the programmes? What is the machine like on specialist cycles? How long does it take? All these things feed into our best buy criteria.
We will devise the testing schedule by looking at things from the ordinary user’s point of view: and if standard industry methods are not good enough we will devise our own methods ”
Causes of poor rinsing
There are some common causes of poor rinsing even in washing machines that do rinse well that it might be useful to point out. Anyone experiencing poor rinsing problems where washing comes out with detergent residues or white powder streaks should read this – White streaks or residual washing powder after washing
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Hi WMUser,
Using a TMV valve on such an old machine will compromise wash results, for a start they do not wash half as long as your modern Zanussi-Electrolux as far as I know the only hot fill on the ZFL1023 is the 95oC whites wash, the 60oC will be hot and cold and (pushing my memory to the limit) all the rest are cold fill. There is also a chance it may be cold fill because the Zanussi Jetsystem that was out in 1989 was cold only. Prior to this the “Washcraft” series from around 1986 were hot and cold but only used the hot water as I have decribed above.
To fit a “Y” adaptor to a warm or hot supply is a disaster waiting to happen, we tried it in the kitchen so the Siltal washer and the dishwaher could both use the hot water, we had a small flood because they are NOT mean’t to be used with anything but cold water. To get around it we gave the hot supply to the dishwasher and have the Siltal connected to 2 cold taps under the sink. “Y” adaptors are famous for leaking anyway, I have had messes with them on a cold supply.
Your solution is possible BUT I cannot see a plumber fitting this arrangement for you as if something goes wrong he will not want you claiming off his public liability insurance. It is something you would have to implement yourself.
If what you are meaning is a hot and cold supply going to a TMV valve and then a “Y” adaptor off the TMV with 2 hoses going to the washing machines inlets, this really ain’t a good idea. Too may joints etc.
However there is a better way, install a second hot tap, either a branch, a T-type tap or a self cutter (these are famous for low pressure though), and have that hose to the hot water valve on the machine. Then connect the existing hot supply and cold supply to the TMV valve, then have a short copper pipe run incorporating the correct reducer and then a washing machine tap on the end and then connect the this to the washing machines cold water inlet hose.
None of this is going to be the perfect solution and should not be nessercary. If you do get the old Zanussi make sure it has both hot and cold fill before doing the work and the model you are looking at will rinse very well with cold water, so is worth a try before you start plumbing anything in. It will either do 4 rinses with water 1/3 up the door (and a top up rinse) and 500rpm intemediate spins after the first, second and third rinse. Or it will do just 3 rinses with water 1/2 up the door with intemediate spins after the wash, first and second rinse.
Good luck with the plumbing.
Oliver.
Hi WMUser,
Having just done a bit of research I can confirm the ZFL1023 is a Jetsystem and is cold fill only, matching the continental machines of their day.
It rinsed to an excellent standard indeed using cold water, its programme sequence on cottons was:
Fill to level 1(1″ below the door glass)
Wash and heat, every 2 minutes it would spin for 4-5 seconds to assist the cleaning process.
Top up rinse to level 2 (1/3 up the door)
Short 500rpm spin.
Rinse 1 (Level 3 almost halfway up the door fill)
Short spin,
Rinse 2,
Short spin,
Rinse 3,
Final spin.
Excellent machine if you can find one. They were fairly rare in their day.
Oliver.
Thanks for the information Oliver – REALLY appreciated.
The ZFL1023 sounds like the perfect option and I’ve checked to see if spares are available and there’s an abundant supply online. :)
It proves that the quality of washing machines have gone downhill over the past 20 years and their rinsing abilities have also become pitiful due to the “eco friendly” brigade.
I agree you’ve done the right thing Oliver, buying your Bosch WFF2000 and who cares about it being “old” – you say in this blog – and others – how happy you are to own it. This is definitely the way to go I think – buy an old washing machine with plenty of spare parts available for it. If I can get the Zanussi ZFL1023 I look forward to decent rinsing and the “spin wash”. Provided repairs for it aren’t too expensive, I could keep it going for as long as possible. I don’t care if the spin speed is 1000rpm or 800rpm and the capacity is 4.5 – 5 kg, meaning I have to do the washing more often and wait a bit longer for the clothes to dry, it’s not that much of a compromise if my washing is rinsed properly and I don’t need to stand there adding jugs of water to the rinses as I do with my current “new” Zanussi-Electrolux.
What do other readers think about older washing machines compared to new ones, especially with regards to rinsing? Do you think the subject of “new” versus “old” washing machines deserves its own blog page on the White Goods help website?
Hi WMUser,
I have just found out some of the very early Jetsystems did have hot and cold fill. The later ones were cold, so this is worth a look before you carry out any work on your plumbing, I have no idea when it was changed though as I was not born until 1988.
Another point I should make before you buy an old machine is alot of engineers will not work on them as they are considered a liability, aven though it is a safer bet than working on a current Indesh!t or Haier. So if it breaks down it may be down to you to repair it. My Bosch is very simple to work on even a bearing change is easy, 45 minutes tops! However I have just done my modern Hotpoint WF530T (I keep this for duvets etc.) and it was an absolute swine of a job, it took me 4 hours as the bl@@dy bearings and water seal would not budge out of the plastic tank, but its done now and works perfectly, no leaks either.
As for repairs and costs etc. it depends on where you are in the country.
Oliver.
Hi Oliver.
Unfortunately I can’t repair washing machines, never tried and don’t want to mess up a washing machine with a bad repair!!
I know of at least 2 shops which sell second-hand appliances, so I may be in luck if I ever get an old Zanussi. I will definitely check to see if it’s hot and cold fill, or cold fill only. Preferably cold fill only, so I can connect it to a TMV and have the warm rinses.
I have also discovered that despite seeing a small amount of foam on the last 2 rinses when re-rinsing, I can see the water below the bubbles is not cloudy. I would know if the washing was not rinsed properly! So for anyone who’s reading because you are having trouble with rinsing, don’t worry if – when re-rinsing – you see a few bubbles floating on the water. Provided the water below the floating bubbles is clear, you’re fine. The washing should not come out smelling strongly of detergent either.
Has anyone else found that too many companies use too many foam boosters in detergents? I have been using Ecover concentrated and even that produces too much foam. Is it me or does it seem that since concentrated detergents came out their cleaning performance has gone down the drain as well as excess bubbles? I have found using the top named brands now a waste of money as none of them work including Persil. So would i be better off just using cheap own brand detergents? Could i use Granny’s soap flakes instead. I am very dubious about using soap based cleaning agents in case i ruin the washing machine.
Simon
Hi Simon,
Do not put pure soap/soap flakes in an automatic front loading washing machine. First problem is it will sud up that much it will more than likely come out of the detergent drawer and could get inside the machines electrics blowing them sky high. Secondly the machine will sudslock, reduce the water used for rinsing and run the drain pump for extended periods both due to foam locking the pressure switch fully open or closed, so giving a false reading. Also soap is soap, there are no water softeners to inhibit limescale formation in the machine, there are no bleaching agents to keep the innards clean, there are no surfactants and enzymes so the results on cleaning you clothing are not going to be so good.
Detergents do not have foam boosters but rather the opposite, foam inhibitors and I as many others have questionned if there is enough in the formulation.
I do not understand why even Persil is not cleaning to a good standard, having seen it shift motor oil, lithium grease and bearing grease with no pretreatment what so ever I can’t see how it struggles with anything else, I have found it to remove blood with no pre treatment either, thats no mean feat. All this is done with short cycle machines, so a real tough challenge but both myself and my Mum get flawless results everytime, and for my Mum that is about 20 loads a week, so it gets a good test. I have a mucky job and I wear white shirts and nomatter what I get on them Persil gets rid of it effortlessly, it removed gear oil from one of my work shirts and a pair of trousers.
If no detergent is getting your clothing clean I would put it down to one of two things, either your clothing has got something indellable on it, in which case nothing will shift it or you washing machine has a fault or needs a good clean out.
All the best,
Oliver.
Detergents do indeed foam too much. Even worse is the nightmare of getting rid of all the deep foam!!
As you mentioned soap flakes, you may find the Soda Crystals and washing machines page helpful on this whitegoodshelp site. Please read comments #5 and #7 from this link, it has a recipe for home-made laundry powder which uses soap flakes:
It looks interesting. Does it work? If you try this Simon, please let us know if it works for you. Cheers. :)
Oliver,
Have you tried Aldi Almat colour liquid? I know you buy Persil but do you think i could use a cheaper detergent i.e. Almat by aldi, sainsburys? Would these have lime scale protectors in or do own brand detergents leave them out? I like daz as found that least perfumed. The only thing on my machine is when it is on the wash cycle the drain pump makes ‘clicking’ noises as if it wants to empty. It drains ok but tries to empty when the programmer has not reached that sequence. Hard to explain but you need to witness it to understand lol. This is my WMA30 Hotpoint that is 11 years old. I do have an older model 9506 which i am waiting to use once this one packs up.
Simon
Hi Simon,
I can honestly say I have never tried Almat, I have heard of it though and have also heard it gunks machines up very badly.
I have tried supermarket own brands before and found them useless compared to the likes of Persil etc. They all have limescale prevention, however the quality of the supermarkets own to the big names are miles apart so my guess being they will not look after the machine properly, personally I would leave well alone.
With regard to your WMA30, where is the “clicking” coming from? It could be a relay on the PCB. If the pump itself is clicking when the macine is supposed to empty then the pump is more than likley tired and needs to be replaced. If it is clicking when it is not supposed to be draining my money is on a fault on the PCB itself, running things in the wrong sequence.
All the best,
Oliver.