My attention was drawn to rinsing efficiency after noticing that out of dozens of washing machines reviewed by Which? most of them had a poor rating for rinsing. Even those singled out as Best Buys were “poor” at rinsing. Believe it or not, at least one Best Buy was “very poor”. I found that pretty shocking.
From studying the figures it is clear that if “good”, or “very good” rinsing was one of the prerequisites for a Best Buy there would be no Best Buy washing machines or washer dryers at all – not a single one. It appears that Which? have decided to allow the poor rinsing results to be a caveat instead of a best buy killer. Please note however that several Which? best buys are “satisfactory” at rinsing which is something at least.
Out of 125 washing machines and washer dryers tested, a remarkable 75 of them (60%) were rated either “poor” or “very poor” at rinsing with only 3 getting the rating we should expect for all washing machines which is “good”.
The rest were a mere “satisfactory”. To summarise, just less than 3 % of the 125 washers & dryers are “good” at rinsing according to Which?
Since writing this article I’ve discovered Which? no longer give the majority of washing machines 1 or 2 star ratings for rinsing ability, and the majority appear to get 3 or 4 stars. Which? tell me they’ve readjusted their rinse marks to more accurately reflect the degrees of abilities between even poor rinsing machines. However, they are still critical of many of their rinsing abilities in the comments and the pros and cons.
What does this mean?
Well for a start it doesn’t mean that we can settle for one of the three washing machines that are “good” at rinsing because they unfortunately let themselves down in other areas such as with “noisy spin, and poor brand reliability”. However, if you really need a washing machine that rinses better than any other – maybe because of allergies – then at least Which? have identified three candidates out of the 125 they’ve tested so far.
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Why aren’t they rinsing properly and does it really matter?
Surely all washing machines should rinse well? It’s surely quite simple, you just use enough water to rinse them properly. It’s astounding that we have reached the situation where the majority of washing machines and washer dryers on sale in the UK are apparently poor at rinsing.
This has probably come about because people have been focussing on other aspects, which has left rinsing as a low priority. Two explanations spring to mind. Firstly, the focus on using less and less water is clearly impacting on our washing machine’s ability to rinse effectively. Whereas modern detergents can facilitate efficient and effective washing results at lower temperatures and with less water, no such product is currently allowing effective rinsing with much less water.
Good rinsing needs plenty of water which is in direct opposition to the current environmental concerns and clamour to be the washing machine using the least amount of water.
Eco LabelsThe second explanation I can think of is that the eco-labelling system which awards ratings for energy efficiency, spin efficiency and wash efficiency do not appear to take into account rinse efficiency.
As such, manufacturers aren’t being judged on how well their washing machines rinse, only on how well they wash and how well they extract water on spin. I’m speculating at this stage, but I can’t see how so many washing machines could be awarded an “A” wash efficiency rating if the tests took into account how well the clothes were rinsed. Presumably, as long as all stains are removed and laundry looks “clean” no one bothers about how much soap detergent residue is left.
It might be a good idea to create a fourth category, “rinse efficiency” on the eco labels, or at least include the rinse efficiency as part of the wash efficiency test.
Ultimately if customers don’t notice an issue then it could be argued that it doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it doesn’t for most people, but it surely does to anyone sensitive to wash detergents and with allergies and a lot of people are. There were 581 comments added on this topic from such people before I had to close comments to prevent it being endless.
The current situation is that to anyone keen to buy a washing machine with good rinsing I have no washing machine to recommend because none of the companies producing the best, and the most reliable washing machines currently supply one that rinses above average according to Which? although this could easily change and you would need to check out the latest to be sure.
Are Which? being too critical? Are Which? applying too stringent a rinse test? I must admit I’ve not had many complaints from people saying their washing machine isn’t rinsing properly and my own Miele washing machine, which although a Which? Best Buy, didn’t receive a “good” rating for rinsing yet it appears to rinse perfectly well as far as we can see.
In fact I remarked to my wife that my clothes don’t smell of detergent like they used to in the old washing machine and deduced that it rinsed much better. However, neither of us have any reactions to washing machine detergent. The thing about Which? is that they are totally independent.
They work only for their subscribers interests and are actually a registered charity. They don’t make any money directly by recommending any product (even though they could) because they want to be seen as 100% unbiased. They are highly respected and I expect they test products fairly. However, my understanding is that the do charge for companies to display their “Best Buy” logo!
I suspect Which? are right and that modern washing machines don’t generally rinse very well because of the reasons I speculate about above. Whether it matters or whether it will change depends on whether enough of the public are bothered, or even notice. The 581 comments added to this article below show that many people do find this a big issue.
Which? research
NOTE: Which? do rate some washing machines as satisfactory for rinsing and even a couple are rated as good, although unfortunately the few rated good (so far) are not so good on reliability.
Which? are constantly reviewing washing machines so if rinsing is particularly important to you it makes sense to become a member and see all the buying advice. I can’t print their advice for copyright reasons.
Here’s how they describe their reviews –
We are of course well known for our traditional product testing. And when we test something like the proverbial washing machine, we will ask the laboratory not only to measure how clean the clothes get, but how much water and energy is used? How easy is it to work out the programmes? What is the machine like on specialist cycles? How long does it take? All these things feed into our best buy criteria.
We will devise the testing schedule by looking at things from the ordinary user’s point of view: and if standard industry methods are not good enough we will devise our own methods ”
Causes of poor rinsing
There are some common causes of poor rinsing even in washing machines that do rinse well that it might be useful to point out. Anyone experiencing poor rinsing problems where washing comes out with detergent residues or white powder streaks should read this – White streaks or residual washing powder after washing
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Miele have a Water Plus option that increases the water level to 1/3 up the door for rinsing and just lapping at the bottom of the glass on wash. However most Miele machines only do 2 rinses, which is not sufficient at all. Some have the option to add a third rinse but they still do not rinse properly.
Oliver all due respect, but as I’ve mentioned way up in the thread, the 4-5 year old Miele machine mum has at home which does 2 rinses as standard rinses more than sufficiently with 2 default rinses and using mainly Ariel or Persil detergents. While all but one of us has moved out her machine has had to deal with 3 people with sensitive skin over the years, and we’ve both found it to be better at washing AND rinsing than any of the previous machines, including the Bosch it replaced which did a mediocre job with 4 with Rinse Plus, and the previous Hotpoint’s dating from the early-mid and late 90s respectively.
Saying that I have recently moved into a flat with an el-cheapo standard issue Beko, and have to say that does a surprisingly good job at washing and rinsing rinse water is always clear by the 2nd rinse even if you use the Quick wash which does 2 as standard, and can do up to 4 if you select the extra rinse. I did have an incident with Asda tablets, which seemed to froth into oblivion and would interfere with the first few interim spins, but even then that was dealt with by the 2nd rinse. Gone back to branded stuff (despite still having half a box of Asda stuff left) and not had a problem with rinsing at all.
It’s interesting to say the least how we all get different results with different machines and powder.
Mira old washing machines were indeed hooked up to hot and cold, but most machines only utilised the hot tap to fill the wash water on washes at 60 degrees or above. None, if any of the European front loaders produced in the last 40 years have ever used warm rinsing only the standard cold water rinse, the new LG’s with the Medic Rinse aside. The warm rinse option has long been available on American top-loaders, however, but are a rarity in this country.
Jon
Hi Jon,
No disrespect to your good self either, but I have seen current Miele in action with and without Water Plus activated and the final rinse water was piled high with foam and the water completley cloudy (obviously with no conditioner). Sudslocking is also a problem, that is not brand specific though, it seems to be something all modern machines suffer.
There are numerous complaints on this blog about Miele machines rinsing properly, both with and without Water plus.
The reason you are getting good results out of your Miele’s rinse performance is because you massivley underdose the detergent. This does not work when washing any kind of heavily soiled clothing. For a washer to be good at rinsing it should remove a NORMAL dose of detergent efficiently not a lot less than recommended. Also you use fabric condidioner which will clear the soapiest wash making it look well rinse even when it is not.
All the best,
Oliver.
That’s what I like to see – respect :-)
Oliver, I know we’ve gone over this before but I’ve never come across any washing machine suds locking unless there is a partial blockage somewhere or it’s being asked to pump water over too long a distance or up too high. Especially a Miele. Do your machines pump out into the connector on the u-bend under the sink or do you have them connected to a drain hose extension or into a stand pipe that’s higher than recommended?
I just don’t understand your on going problem with foam and suds locking on more than one machine.
Afternoon Andy,
Bosch – never sudslocks, with any detergent.
Hotpoint – always sudslocks. This is down to bad programming and cannot be altered.
Siltal – never sudslocks anymore, now it uses a sufficient anount of water to wash and rinse, since I altered the pressure switch.
The Bosch and Siltal both have their own stand pipes, so no problem there, the filters are spotless, they have the normal drain hose with no extensions and the stand pipes are with in the guide lines. It is just the fact certain detergents are too soapy for certain machines,so when interim spinning it all foams up between the inner and outer drum and there for fills the lot up with foam and thus cannot be pumped away. The situation is now sorted as Persil works fine and unlike Ariel is not too soapy, it was mainly a detergent issue.
It is just more apparent as modern washing machines spin straight after the wash, do not rinse with very much water so the detergent is not diluted as well, so when spinning just turns to foam.
Don’t use the Hotpoint much these days, only for large items, when I use it I hook the drain hose over the edge of the (don’t laugh!) bathroom sink and I have installed a special blanked off washing machine tap in there too for this purpose, saves moving the Bosch out of the way!
Oliver.
Oliver,
The model my mum has has a detergent dosage recommendation indicator based on the load, and 9 times out of 10 it will be 75% recommended or less; which is where I have got my conservative measures from. Either way, for years I used to ignore it and used a full measure of powder or 2 tablets regardless, and it still rinsed perfectly. BTW the most challenging loads for rinsing/suds we wash are towels, which I will rarely use softener on – and these are still sufficiently rinsed. Bear in mind over the years mum’s machine has had to cope with football kits, dog walking jeans, your standard food stains on teatowels, to my niece’s clothes (which coincidentally my sister can’t clean with Persil n.bio liquid) – often involving all the baby-related ick.
Either way, I appreciate your input, however nobody I know with a Miele or some (not all) other more modern washers has had a problem in terms of rinsing, several friends & family also have Miele machines and they don’t have the same problem either; one of my friends being a chronic overdoser. So it is unfair to discount them purely on poor rinse performance, when quite the opposite is true – especially when the brand/type of powder and water hardness are also equally important factors in rinse performance.
Cheers,
Jon
I think “suds locking” refers to the situation where the foam gets trapped between rinses and does not get flushed away. Either the pump gets switched off too soon, before all of the soapy water has a chance to be pumped out completely and/or the foam does not get flushed out between the drum and outer tub.
I don’t know if the leftover foam itself is full of the detergent chemicals that the rinses are trying to remove, but I have noticed this foam does not get flushed away properly. This is more a problem if I wash a smaller load and use the recommended dosage (even WITHOUT soda crystals I’ve seen lots of foam!!). Best thing I found for small loads – to avoid excess foam – is to use 2/3 or 1/2 the minimum dosage and always use soda crystals to prevent limescale, if you don’t live in a “soft water” area.
Thinking back, I remember adding 1/2 a drum of cold water when re-rinsing and not seeing many soapsuds appear, but now that I add 1/2 a drum of hot water, you can really see the soapsuds and if you pause the washing machine for a few minutes, you can see the soap “fizz” out of the clothes soaking in this warm water. It must be doing something and Mira’s comment #388 says about baby clothes recommending rinsing in warm water.
Oliver : I’m with you all the way on the Miele – I have one with the rinse plus option, and have experienced the same results as yourself. However, as I have said before, I do find that just using Vanish powder, no other detergent, or Ecover Biological does substantially solve the rinsing problem. I still have to rinse everything in hot water by hand in the sink, but only once or twice. To me, this is bliss!
Hi Jon,
The Miele load / Detergent thing is a selling point and can easily be tricked. Say you set it to do a cottons wash and fill the drum full with half cottons and half synthetics it will think it has alot less than a full load, thus would tell you to UNDERDOSE the detergent. Lets face it we all throw cottons and synthetics in the same wash.
I really hope you do not think I am arguing with you but, up here in West Yorkshire we have fairly soft water and with the correct amount of detergent for the water conditions does not rinse out. You have hard water which shifts detergent easier. A washer cannot only rinse well in hard water, thats pointless. Using less than the recommended dose, has been tried and the results are just rubbish, stains not shifted and the other usual problems all follow.
No washing machine will accept its said capacity because in order to do so it would be rammed to the gunnels. Some manufactueres are rating the capacity of their machines these days with the door open, so not allowing for the indentation of the door glass, so this is just one possible reason why your Miele says use less detergent than recommended.
Neither my parents or myself have got a Miele washing machine, it is a drier that my Mum has. A Miele washing machine is not heavy-duty enough for her needs, as she washes up to 20 loads a week. However the near decade old Siltal takes it all in its stride perfectly. For a Miele to last 20 years it has to 4 loads a week.
The Miele washer belongs to a friend.
All the best,
Oliver.
Hi WMUser,
You are right that is what I mean by sudslock. When the machine is spinning throwing torrants of thick white foam down the door and it just cycles through out the tank, also often you can hear the motor labouring greatly under the extreme situation.
The left over foam is full of the chemicals and will polute the next rinse and will there for massivley decrease rinse efficiency, tried it my self. The load is not spun properly at all if the machine has sudslocked.
All the best,
Oliver.
Hi Nikki,
Like I said in a comment above the Miele belongs to a friend, they love it but the soap left in the final rinse is amazing. This is with “Water Plus” activated and also “Rinse Plus” too. I certainly wouldn’t be happy scratching myself raw, it may be a good quality machine but its rinse performance certainly isn’t.
When my Bosch is in the final (4th) rinse the water is crystal clear (I do not use softener), whereas the Mieles was cloudy, there was alot of evedence of alot of detergent residue present.
As far as I know no modern machine rinse properly except some American top loaders and certain industrial/commercial machines.
All the best,
Oliver.