My attention was drawn to rinsing efficiency after noticing that out of dozens of washing machines reviewed by Which? most of them had a poor rating for rinsing. Even those singled out as Best Buys were “poor” at rinsing. Believe it or not, at least one Best Buy was “very poor”. I found that pretty shocking.
From studying the figures it is clear that if “good”, or “very good” rinsing was one of the prerequisites for a Best Buy there would be no Best Buy washing machines or washer dryers at all – not a single one. It appears that Which? have decided to allow the poor rinsing results to be a caveat instead of a best buy killer. Please note however that several Which? best buys are “satisfactory” at rinsing which is something at least.
Out of 125 washing machines and washer dryers tested, a remarkable 75 of them (60%) were rated either “poor” or “very poor” at rinsing with only 3 getting the rating we should expect for all washing machines which is “good”.
The rest were a mere “satisfactory”. To summarise, just less than 3 % of the 125 washers & dryers are “good” at rinsing according to Which?
Since writing this article I’ve discovered Which? no longer give the majority of washing machines 1 or 2 star ratings for rinsing ability, and the majority appear to get 3 or 4 stars. Which? tell me they’ve readjusted their rinse marks to more accurately reflect the degrees of abilities between even poor rinsing machines. However, they are still critical of many of their rinsing abilities in the comments and the pros and cons.
What does this mean?
Well for a start it doesn’t mean that we can settle for one of the three washing machines that are “good” at rinsing because they unfortunately let themselves down in other areas such as with “noisy spin, and poor brand reliability”. However, if you really need a washing machine that rinses better than any other – maybe because of allergies – then at least Which? have identified three candidates out of the 125 they’ve tested so far.
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Why aren’t they rinsing properly and does it really matter?
Surely all washing machines should rinse well? It’s surely quite simple, you just use enough water to rinse them properly. It’s astounding that we have reached the situation where the majority of washing machines and washer dryers on sale in the UK are apparently poor at rinsing.
This has probably come about because people have been focussing on other aspects, which has left rinsing as a low priority. Two explanations spring to mind. Firstly, the focus on using less and less water is clearly impacting on our washing machine’s ability to rinse effectively. Whereas modern detergents can facilitate efficient and effective washing results at lower temperatures and with less water, no such product is currently allowing effective rinsing with much less water.
Good rinsing needs plenty of water which is in direct opposition to the current environmental concerns and clamour to be the washing machine using the least amount of water.
Eco LabelsThe second explanation I can think of is that the eco-labelling system which awards ratings for energy efficiency, spin efficiency and wash efficiency do not appear to take into account rinse efficiency.
As such, manufacturers aren’t being judged on how well their washing machines rinse, only on how well they wash and how well they extract water on spin. I’m speculating at this stage, but I can’t see how so many washing machines could be awarded an “A” wash efficiency rating if the tests took into account how well the clothes were rinsed. Presumably, as long as all stains are removed and laundry looks “clean” no one bothers about how much soap detergent residue is left.
It might be a good idea to create a fourth category, “rinse efficiency” on the eco labels, or at least include the rinse efficiency as part of the wash efficiency test.
Ultimately if customers don’t notice an issue then it could be argued that it doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it doesn’t for most people, but it surely does to anyone sensitive to wash detergents and with allergies and a lot of people are. There were 581 comments added on this topic from such people before I had to close comments to prevent it being endless.
The current situation is that to anyone keen to buy a washing machine with good rinsing I have no washing machine to recommend because none of the companies producing the best, and the most reliable washing machines currently supply one that rinses above average according to Which? although this could easily change and you would need to check out the latest to be sure.
Are Which? being too critical? Are Which? applying too stringent a rinse test? I must admit I’ve not had many complaints from people saying their washing machine isn’t rinsing properly and my own Miele washing machine, which although a Which? Best Buy, didn’t receive a “good” rating for rinsing yet it appears to rinse perfectly well as far as we can see.
In fact I remarked to my wife that my clothes don’t smell of detergent like they used to in the old washing machine and deduced that it rinsed much better. However, neither of us have any reactions to washing machine detergent. The thing about Which? is that they are totally independent.
They work only for their subscribers interests and are actually a registered charity. They don’t make any money directly by recommending any product (even though they could) because they want to be seen as 100% unbiased. They are highly respected and I expect they test products fairly. However, my understanding is that the do charge for companies to display their “Best Buy” logo!
I suspect Which? are right and that modern washing machines don’t generally rinse very well because of the reasons I speculate about above. Whether it matters or whether it will change depends on whether enough of the public are bothered, or even notice. The 581 comments added to this article below show that many people do find this a big issue.
Which? research
NOTE: Which? do rate some washing machines as satisfactory for rinsing and even a couple are rated as good, although unfortunately the few rated good (so far) are not so good on reliability.
Which? are constantly reviewing washing machines so if rinsing is particularly important to you it makes sense to become a member and see all the buying advice. I can’t print their advice for copyright reasons.
Here’s how they describe their reviews –
We are of course well known for our traditional product testing. And when we test something like the proverbial washing machine, we will ask the laboratory not only to measure how clean the clothes get, but how much water and energy is used? How easy is it to work out the programmes? What is the machine like on specialist cycles? How long does it take? All these things feed into our best buy criteria.
We will devise the testing schedule by looking at things from the ordinary user’s point of view: and if standard industry methods are not good enough we will devise our own methods ”
Causes of poor rinsing
There are some common causes of poor rinsing even in washing machines that do rinse well that it might be useful to point out. Anyone experiencing poor rinsing problems where washing comes out with detergent residues or white powder streaks should read this – White streaks or residual washing powder after washing
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Hi Michelle,
The problem with the low water washes you tried is the detergent didn’t dissolve properly, it will be hiding invisible to the naked eye in the fibres and resoaping in all the rinses as cold water will not dissolve it. If you retry your experiment with a low wash water phase and 3 higher level rinses, with a hot wash phase of 60/70oC (wearing rubber gloves of course) my money is on you will find it doesn’t get the “icky” smell once dried. Another option is to do the hot wash phase and just before you pull the plug add double the amount of cold water to the wash solution (a dilution rinse or cold top-up) and try your 3 rinses and you should still have no smell at the end.
This is why cooler washes on the washing machine sometimes wash longer than hot ones as dirt removal is much slower and detergent doesn’t readily dissolve in cold/cool water, even liquid.
Another problem could be the type of detergent you are using, are you using the correct amount for water hardness and soiling, also remembering a 6kg machine will need just a touch more than a 5 kg machine. Detergents like Ecover are famous for funny smells etc. Has your washing machine developed the mouldy smell from constant low temperature washings and no maintainence washes?
I’ll admit its an odd one that the modern Bosch machines are giving off funny smells, it definatley has to be something going through them as nothing inside a washing machine can smell on its own. The only thing would be a new door seal they can smell abit rubbery for a few weeks but other than I can’t think of anything else.
Oliver.
Hi Ian,
Have you tried selecting “Water Plus”? If the clothing is still hard running a couple of extra rinses with water plus after the wash has finished may help. As Andy pointed out tumble drying for the correct amount of time does naturally soften fabrics without fabric conditioner of any kind. Even modern Miele machines are not great at rinsing, as are no modern machine.
Oliver.
Hi Simon,
Using chlorine bleach can yellow certain white fabrics such as Nylon, I have seen people yellow white towels with it as well. Prolonged use could damage the washing machine, if it is not rinsed out properly could also do you a fair bit of damage too. It will reduce the efficiency of the detergent as well as bleach is acid and detergent is alkaline so will “knock” each other out and could cause dangerous fumes. If you use a good quality biological bleaching washing powder and the correct wash temperature for whites (60oC if they will take it), I wash everything on 60oC I just ignore the label on the fabric, nothing of mine is ruined, bleaching, adding vanish and other additives are completely unnecessary yes please and a waste of money and something else to rinse out as well. Just using correct detergents and wash cycles make a massive difference to the quality of the wash. Quick washes, Economy washes and Time Saver options all decrease the efficiency of the wash especially on modern machines which use little water in the first place.
Also separating whites and coloureds is a good idea, I know people who use those daft colour catcher things, not only can the block up the machine but don’t catch colour and the people in question do not have white whites, very grey looking, another stupid invention.
Soda crystals say you can use them in washing machine, all machines have the aluminium drum spider fitted, whether or not it will corrode it quicker than using detergent alone will only be a guess. My personal view is the could harm the machine and the performance of soda crystals is not that good anyway. If the correct amount and type of detergent is used once again soda crystals are another product that is simply not needed, they will not white whites as they are in no way a bleach of any kind.
I get very dirty at work and get my clothing properly clean by just using the correct amount of Persil Biological and Bleach powder (green box) and absolutely nothing else. My whites are properly white and colours bright and fresh all from using the one product, I don’t use fabric conditioner either. I have come to the personal conclusion if you read the detergent box and washing machine instruction manual that all add on products, stain removers, oxygen additives and Calgon are a complete waste of money, time and resources as are washing tablets and capsules etc. For very stubborn stains a spray with “Shout” stain remover gives a bit of help and I very rarely use that, it there for emergency’s only.
The purple door Hotpoint although bared the name Hotpoint was in fact made by Zanussi and was a good machine and does fill 1/2 way up the door to rinse as well. Probably will not find one as they are from the late 70’s and parts are all probably obsolete. You may find one in a local backstreet retailer or re-conditioners but would have thought very unlikely as it was too long ago.
Oliver.
Can anyone tell me if Optical brighteners fade coloured clothes? Also does anyone know of a detergent without colourants but include enzymes? I have found when using coloured liquids it takes many rinses to get the clothes clear but if i used ecover 2 rinses would be sufficient.
In the ideal world Oliver, every washing machine would be like your Bosch WFF2000 and would work fine with Persil Biological on its own. In reality, modern washing machines don’t use enough water, limescale is a nuisance in my “hard water” area and I don’t think many people with expensive designer clothes would wash them at 60C, even if they can. You rarely see wash labels on new garments that recommending washing above 40C.
I’m suspicious that detergent packets recommend using too much – countless times I’ve used the “recommended” amount and seen lots of foam. If using less than recommended can cause limescale damage, then soda crystals are the ideal solution. I’m sure people who have problems with rinsing are probably using much less detergent than recommended, but they risk causing other problems like a dirty washing machine, grease, limescale and mould. Again, soda crystals will allow people to use less detergent without risking limescale damage (in all but “soft” water areas) and improve rinsing because there’s less detergent in the first place. However, regular hot washes are needed to keep the washing machine clean inside.
If soda crystals are known to cause damage to drum spiders, the makers of soda crystals should be contacted immediately!!
Reading through the comments, some of you seem to know a lot about detergents and rinsing. You could e-mail every major washing machine manufacturer and pass on your findings. Since there are only a few manufacturers who make different brands e.g. Electrolux make Zanussi and AEG and others, it won’t take very long to visit the manufacturer’s website and e-mail them with your knowledge. It could help us all, especially the hot rinsing idea and why it works. Alternatively, write to each companies’ head office. :)
See also “Who owns who? Who really makes your washing machine?
Hi Simon,
Optical brighteners do not fade anything. Optical brighteners react with UV light ie. from the sun and reflect it thus making your laundry look cleaner and brighter. In the real world they do nothing, they make no noticable difference. They make a permanent bond with fabrics and once there cannot be removed. Ecover does not contain any sort of optical brightener.
When you say coloured liquid do you mean liquid for coloured washing or the dye in it to turn it a horrible shade of green or blue etc.?
There is no such thing as coloured liquid or white liquid, manufacteres may say there is but in reality there is not, the only difference is lack of optical brightener, no liquid be it biological or other wise can possibly fade colours due to the lack of bleach, no liquid ever has or ever will contain bleach due to the chemistry involved. It would all settle to the bottom of the bottle giving you half a bottle of neat bleach, and manufactureres do not trust customers to shake the bottle so hence the reason it doesn’t get added.
Ecover do a biological laundry liquid with no colourant, but the performance ain’t that good and will be no use for whites anyway. By the nature of the manufacture of Ecover it rinses out easier anyway, the problem is it causes bad smells and it is not uncommon to rot away the internal parts of your washing machine with it if constantly used with low temperatures.
The best way of washing will always be powders, like Persil bio and bleach for whites and if you want a colour variant aswell thats fine. I’ll never know why they invented liquids before they were invented everyone was happy with powder, liquids cause more problems than they solve, the same for those tablets and daft capsules, the latter two are pandering to peoples bone-idleness!!
HTH,
Oliver.
Hi Oliver,
I meant the dyes in liquid laundry detergent. Some are crystal clear like Ecover and Surcare but Persil liquid for colours is purple and bio green. I wondered if the colourants made rinsing more difficult. I always thought Optical brighteners were bad for sensitive skin and the environment too?? The colourants come out completely if i rinse by hand but always a little left on the clothes when been in the machine. Am currently using SA8 laundry liquid but to be honest its absolute rubbish at stain removal and have started washing at 60C but even then it won’t remove stains. Persil concentrated liquid will remove stains and my Hotpoint seems to like that one the most so will have go back to the that.
Does anyone know if I can alter the water level on the Hotpoint WMA30? Uses so little water on wash and on final rinse. If i press ‘Super rinse’ it helps but i think they made the mistake of only doing 3 rinses instead of 4 on the cotton cycle. This machine was made about 1997 so one of the stupid energy efficiency rubbish lol.
If I can not find a second hand model i think i will have to buy an American top loader as its quicker wash times, uses more water, won’t have to wash so much and uses my hot water.
Simon
Hi Oliver
To be fair to the Bosch, I’m now fairly confident that it does NOT impart any smell of its own onto the washing, which I’m very pleased about, and I’m feeling a lot more positive towards it as a result.
I think my hand washing tests have shown that the powder is capable of making odd smells all on its own, without the help of any washing machine! It seems that the powder can behave differently, depending on the temperature, amount of water, and amount of agitation, which all influence how well the powder dissolves, how much foam is created, and possibly there are other chemicals that are created along the way – I’m not familiar with all the intricacies of washing powders’ mode of action. So I have lots more tests that I want to do to get to the bottom of this, including the suggestions you made – thanks for those. I think that the ‘icky’ smell may be the detergent component of the powder – it smells slightly chemically, so I don’t think it is a perfume. If it is perfume, it’s not one I care for! Fortunately, it seems to disappear after a couple of days of airing. So far, I think the smell arises from the creation of foam – if not due to the foam itself, then due to another chemical process that has taken place as a result of the same action that created the foam. Once the foam (or other chemical) has been created, it does seem to be very difficult to rinse out again.
Of course, the icky smell could be because it’s a supermarket own brand washing powder, so you could be right about them not being as good as brand names. I will keep trying new washing powders – hopefully I can find one whose perfume I don’t object to, and which rinses out better. I have yet to come across a powder for coloured clothes that is un-perfumed however – if anyone knows of one, please let me know. There are several un-perfumed powders for whites, but I worry that they will fade coloured clothes. OTOH I read something lately about how powder for coloured clothes is just a gimmick, so now I don’t know what to think.
Regards the future health of the Bosch, I do almost all our washing on 60 degrees, and I never use fabric conditioner, so I think I should be safe from ‘gunk’ buildup. I use about half the recommended dose of powder, in an effort to avoid the bitty smell which really gets up my nose. However the ratio of powder to water is likely to be much the same as my old machine, which used approximately twice as much water per cycle, so I don’t expect much limescale to build up. Just to make sure, is it OK to do a maintenance wash with say half a cup of vinegar, or would this corrode any aluminium present?
The under-dosing is a real nuisance though. I’ve realised that it’s not just the powder:water ratio that matters, it’s the powder:dirt in the fabric ratio that really matters, if you want to get things clean. But after months of using this machine, I’m not convinced that a window of opportunity exists where the dose of powder is high enough to get things clean, and low enough that it gets properly rinsed out. Consequently it’s always a dilemma, every time I put a load on – do I use enough powder to get the stuff properly clean, then put up with the smell or have to rinse by hand, or do I use a lower dose so I don’t have to re-rinse, but then the stuff may not be properly clean?
Ceejay: I have a few tips for you which might help, since we have the same washing machine… under-dose with powder, experiment to see how little you can get away with, personally I’ve found that half the recommended dose is often sufficient. Run pre-wash with no powder in before every wash, this will help to remove water soluble dirt and give the powder less work to do. Use the highest spin your washing can take – this will remove more detergent – I can tell the difference even between 1000 and 1200 rpm. If the stuff needs re-rinsing, it’s better to do it by hand – I’ve found that 10 minutes spent hand rinsing a few pillow cases, for example, is more effective than running another whole cycle. I only re-rinse stuff that’s going to be near my face, to stop the bitty smell getting up my nose – other stuff I just leave, it’s too much work. If you can’t get that annoying smell out no matter how much you rinse, try soaking the stuff (in a lot of water) overnight, or hanging up to air for several days. I live in a very hard water area, though, with soft water, your problem is probably worse than mine. I know that if I ran a load of washing 3 times, it wouldn’t have any trace of detergent left in it. If you read my flannel experiment post, you will see that adding lots of water to the wash phase (while hand washing) reduced creation of foam, so perhaps you could try this – you can pour water in through the dispensing tray. I wish you good luck…
Michelle
Hi Michelle,
Using vinegar to clean a washing machine doesn’t work, I doubt very much it would damage anything, it is not strong enough, is not powerful enough in the anti bacterial department to kill germs properly. If I remember correctly it was the “How clean is your house” duo Kim and Aggie that suggested this solution, I have tried it when I first got the Bosch (it was a mess from the previous owner) and it did nothing. I have their book (bought as a present) and 99% of what they recommend either doesn’t work or can seriously do damage to things.
A maintainence wash should be done using a good biological powder Ariel or Persil, even if you only use it for cleaning the machine it is worth it. The builders in the formulation will remove hard water deposits from the machine on their own. Also there is a product called “Maytag affresh” (available from the 4Waherhelp spares shop) washing machine cleaner and I have tried that and it works very well probably slightly better than the detergent method. Either way your machine will be clean and muck free.
It was me who said coloured powder could be a gimmick, I could be wrong its only my personal view, however I have never had a problem with normal detergent fading my clothing. This is one for the individual to make their own mind up on!
Also underdosing of detergent as you say does decrease the efficiency of the wash. A method you could try on any modern machine is when its in the last 5 minutes of the wash phase, just add cold water to the wash water to about 1/4 up the door, this will help release the detergent from the fabric and dilute it before rinsing begins. Old Hoovers used to do this, they called it a “Dilution Rinse”, and it does help. My Grandma had an Electra (Creda) that used to do this (they called it a “Cold Top-Up”), but it filled half way up the door, as it filled nearly 1/4 to wash in the first place.
If you want a colour detergent the only one is Ecover biological liquid, which is not advertised as colour but as no liquid contains bleach you will be fine. Ecover is not the best performer though.
All the best,
Oliver.
Hi WMUser,
The WFF2000 washes with the exact same amount of water any modern machine would, about 2″ in the bottom of the drum. Unless I programme Higher Water Level into the wash as well as the rinses. Then it would wash in water touching the door seal. I have found it unnecessary, it is just a waste of time water and energy. The only reason my Mums machine washes better with more water is because she simply overloads it and she will not be told, she can kill the best quality machines in a very short space of time! Also the Bosch agitates much less than a modern machine and the wash phase is sometimes less than half an hour including heating. So if a good detergent works well on it own under those conditions I can promise if used correctly ALL other additives are a waste of time.
As regards to detergent knowledge I use all sorts of different types in my job, carpet /upholstery cleaning, laundry detergents are very similar to what I use and there are a host of “add on” products here too and if you know what you are doing they are a complete waste of money. Manufacturer’s want you to buy all these add on products in all aspects of life and with a bit of knowledge and knowing the chemical names etc. you can see through the marketing bumf! I am the suspicious type!!!
As regards washing at 30/40oC both my Bosch and the Siltal will get good results, I just prefer to wash at 60 oC, my Mum washes all sorts on 40 oC in the Siltal and it always gets things clean, considering she loads it with a ram rod that’s not bad going. Even before when it washes with 2″ of water in the drum it still washed well, she only uses Ariel powder with no add-ons. She used to use liquid plus an oxygen booster, I explained powder contained it all so she switched and said from the off all her clothing was a lot cleaner with only powder. The Siltal also washes in about half an hour. Add on products can often reduce the efficiency of the detergent itself by altering pH etc.
I promise you with hand on heart I have tried everything and can tell you washing machine additives are a con if you use the detergent correctly. And above all else buy a good brand.
I am only guessing to whether soda crystals will damage a washing machine, I have no evidence either way. If I find out I will post it up here immediately. Soda crystals are also very hard on your skin too, about as bad as detergent I would say judging by the alkalinity of them both.
All the best,
Oliver.