I’ve been writing about the poor quality of many modern washing machines since 2000. As a long-time repairman I’d witnessed the gradual slip between people keeping them running as long as possible to all too often throwing them away at the first breakdown – unless it could be fixed for a pittance. Since then it’s become a serious environmental issue.
The public usually gets exactly what the public wants. The majority of people don’t want more reliable washing machines – they mostly want cheaper washing machines. They might say they want more reliable washing machines, but only if they aren’t expensive, which can’t happen.
If this wasn’t true – how come hardly anyone buys a Miele compared to how many buy Indesit, Beko, Candy, Servis, Hotpoint etc? Most people know a Miele washing machine is substantially better quality and likely to last at least 2 or 3 times longer than a Hotpoint or Indesit but they won’t buy one – because they are “expensive”.
This isn’t an advert for Miele, I mention them because I don’t know of any other washing machine that is anywhere near as well built available in the UK. I use the word “expensive” reluctantly, and in quotes, because they are only relatively expensive. £800 is what a washing machine of that quality should cost these days – if not more.
They only appear expensive because other manufacturers constantly undercut the quality so much they can sell much cheaper and make them look expensive. Instead of bravely maintaining quality but seeing their washing machines rise in price, most manufacturers have found themselves constantly having to reduce quality and cut corners to keep their appliances competitively priced.
Reduced build quality
This trend has got progressively worse, to the point where they regularly redesign parts, ditching tried and tested designs in favour of cheaper new production methods designed to cut manufacturing costs.
Most appliance manufacturers have been making washing machines for many decades, and could have developed incredibly reliable ones by now. Instead, they are selling new washing machines that still suffer the same faults their previous models suffered from over 10-years ago. Instead of their appliances becoming better with time and experience, they get worse, or at best stay the same.
To be fair, it would be a very brave manufacturer to maintain standards and become a lot more expensive. But Miele seem to manage OK producing better quality but more expensive appliances. I’m sure there is room in the market for something in between the average washing machine and a Miele.
Most current washing machines are way too cheap
It might not seem as though they are cheap, but compared to what they should be if standards had been maintained they definitely are. For example, Hoover used to sell a 1200 spin 4.5Kg washing machine at over £400 in the 1990s. Yet over a dozen years later in 2008, a Hoover 1600 spin 6Kg washing machine cost as little as £211.
In 2019 Hoover’s 1400 Spin 7Kg capacity washing machine is just £234. That’s a faster spin, and much bigger drum for almost half the price compared to almost 25 years ago. Moving manufacture to cheaper countries is part of it, but these prices can only be achieved by also reducing quality and repairability.
Note: I give Hoover as an example only because I had more knowledge of their old prices as a previous Hoover Agent. All manufacturers are the same. If prices had stayed the same (not even gone up as you’d expect) then that £400 washing machine from around 1994 should cost £775.55 in 2019.
Going back further..
In 1973, a basic Hoover washing machine was £94.88, that’s equivalent to £1,192.74 in 2019! (Source Inflation calculator). Today – over 40 years later a similarly basic model but with faster spins and a bigger drum can be bought for £220. That’s equivalent to just £21.47 in 1973. So in 40 years, the price of a basic washing machine has dropped (in real terms) by nearly 80% which is absolutely staggering.
An 80% reduction in cost is impossible without reducing the quality and longevity of the product. If you want to produce a washing machine made as well as the Hoover was in 1973, (even accounting for advances in production techniques) it should cost much more like £600+ and with extra features and technical advances it should easily be £800+.
Don’t fall into the trap of thinking a more expensive appliance will last longer
Top quality, extremely well built washing machines are still available and they are every bit as reliable as they used to be – if not more so. They just usually cost between £600 and over £1000. However, do not assume an expensive washing machine has to be high build quality – are more expensive washing machines better quality?
Most manufacturers prefer to sell to the mass market in vast quantities, but it’s getting harder for them to compete on price and they’ve dug themselves into a big hole. Currently almost every washing machine available is virtually the same machine inside, with hardly any difference in quality, repairability and even design.
Summary
Consumers relentlessly batter down prices by rewarding those who can do it £5 cheaper and punishing those who can’t by not buying them. Too many consumers focus on price over quality and choose faster spins and more features over solid build quality and repair-ability. The majority of consumers swap over to cheaper brands if the one they always had goes up in price.
There’s a limit to the savings to be made by clever, innovative production methods.
Inevitably manufacturers had to resort to cutting down the length of the mains cable and the hoses, reducing the quality and sturdiness of the main casing, changing metal parts to plastic etc. and reducing the quality and repair-ability of components in order to satisfy the demand for cheap prices.
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Again Traxxion you are wrong.
I have been a subscriber to Which, and no Beko washing machines have ever been a best buy, and Hotpoint haven’t had many either.
Really, Hotpoint now owned by Indesit. And as for the jokes aka known as the faulty cookers and fridge freezers brought to us by Beko, you really think they are reliable? People died as a result of those poorly designed products, Beko were manufacturing those fridges for 7 years with the same thermostat. Quality control I don’t think so.
Don’t talk to me about Hotpoint, my current flat has a WMA35, the parents have the exact same one, and they are nothing but useless. They don’t get anything clean, even with a 40 degree cycle and Waitrose concentrated bio liquid. They are so noisy and unstable, and really are a waste of space.
Say what you will, but Miele can’t be beaten. FYI, Miele machines can be opened mid cycle, and the design hasn’t ever changed because it works, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Washerhelp: OK, its really obvious how differently we see things.
I find it interesting that you used BMW as an example. There we have the same issue – is a BMW worth the premium? The answer if you know anything about cars is NO. The logic that BMW’s are made in Germany therefore they are better than X (although FIAT I will grant you *shudder* ….) is flawed. BMW’s are waaaay overrated and overpriced. They are not quality vehicles. In fact a 3 series is so basic and uncomfortable it makes me want to cry and then laugh at the silly owners who choose them. Mercedes – same problem – HORRENDOUS recent sevice and reliability records on their machines (no I don’t mean the S class), yet the yuppies stil buy them. I’d rather own a Ford Focus – and I hate the Ford Focus. In my opinion, Miele’s are overrated in the same way.
How anyone can look at Which charts, see a 2% difference in machine reliability between Beko and Miele, then hand over an extra £400 quid or so is beyond me, but it is your money and everyone is free to do as they please. Personally I would rather plump for an underdog any day of the week if it there is even a chance of getting the same/similar service life and more features. Its back to the basic Miele costing more than the highend Hotpoint. Erm… I think I’ll take the Hotpoint thanks very much, skip the warranty and take my chances….!? To me it is a no brainer. I don’t think this makes me a ‘stupid’ consumer – quite the opposite actually.
I just bought a Beko fridge freezer today – it can operate at – 15 degrees C, unlike other fridge freezers on the market and is well designed in other respects too. The Hotpoint FF has given up after about 8 years (not too bad). Longevity of the Beko – I guess we will see, but my old Beko TV gave good service and again, the picture was better than an equivalent Sony costing twice as much. Interesting to note that my premium brand Sony only lasted 3 years. I have a Miele vacuum cleaner which has been pretty good. Again, it is pretty basic compared to a Dyson, or even an LG. I don’t rate the Miele higher than LG to be honest, since the LG didn’t break either and had the benefit of being bagless and not losing suction, but the Miele does work well enough.
You seem to be assuming again and again that I speak only out of experiencing one product vs another, even though I have repeatedly tried to clarify this is not the case. In fact I specified that the pump failure on this particular Miele was apparently a common problem, not a one-off experience. I also, was the person who replaced the pump for my mother-in-law and the inside of the wshing machine looked like something from the 80’s! So, finally, I did a random search for Miele on Google and completely by chance ended up on one of your reviews. I found an interesting comment, which sums up the likes of Miele quite nicely:
“Of course parts are likely to be expensive too because they are high quality parts though even accounting for the quality it’s hard to justify some of the prices of some spare parts, which franky can be astounding (eg. £500 for a motor, £200 for a pump). ”
The fact you have ever encountered having to purchase these parts, let alone that they are a COMPLETE ripoff, is all I need to make a decision I’m afraid and I can’t STAND unreasoned brand loyalty (i.e. Sony, Miele, BMW, Dell) when other products are almost always better. Where are the ‘better designed’ MIele/BMW products? I just don’t see it.
Thanks though for the civil debate. I think you have a great well written website!
Hello Traxxion: I agree that many of the premium brands have reduced quality compared to their past and it’s a shame, though they are usually still better than the budget or even normal brands. Unfortunately we pay a lot for better quality. I also agree that “premium brands” are commonly overpriced in that their perceived value is worth more money and many people will pay extra for better. Often it is 3 times the cost for 50% better but premium quality brands don’t sell in the mass quantities that cheap ones do so economies of scale don’t help.
I wouldn’t go too much on the reliability figures from Which? – I have commented on them before as I believe the chart to have flaws in it due to the vast differences in sample numbers. Here’s what I wrote before on the topic –
“.. Which? say that the table is compiled from “the manufacturers that have the best reliability according to our members” and although that’s extremely interesting to see, I do have a problem with it in that each manufacturers reliability percentage is derived from a totally different sample. So to me its not really a fair comparison.
If you look at the numbers in brackets at the side of each manufacturer listed you can see that there’s a potentially distorting difference. I’m no statistician, but the numbers sampled can have a significant effect on end percentages. If you have 100 people owning a washing machine, and 10 of them have problems then its 10%, but if you have 200 people and 10 of them have problems its only 5%. The same results from just 2 people would be 50%.
The Tricity Bendix figures, which show as the most reliable washing machine are derived from just 93 people, whereas the Miele sample was 393 and the Bosh sample was 2,104. Because the samples are all different I cant see how this table can be 100% reliable.
Another anomaly is that Tricity Bendix beats Zanussi in the reliability table (who appear only halfway down), yet Tricity Bendix washing machines are only budget versions of Zanussi washing machines made by the same (Electrolux) group so you’d expect them to have the same reliability. One possible explanation (other than the very small sample size used for tricity Bendix) is that as budget washing machines, the Tricity Bendix brand is less complex, and therefore could be more reliable than the supposedly better quality Zanussi they are derived from. In fairness, if Tricity Bendix was particularly unreliable, a small sample size would work against it creating a larger percentage of people with problems so I’m happy to accept that Tricity Bendix may be very reliable for the price.
Finally, Candy is 6% above Hoover yet Hoover and Candy are fundamentally the same washing machines made by the same group with Hoover being the slightly more up-market product and supposed to be slightly better built.
Washing machine manufacturers labour charges are all fairly similar and surprisingly, the better quality washing machine manufacturers often charge no more or even less than some of the much cheaper brands.”
@Traxxion
There is, of course, the issue of the fact that “long life”, “Work well”, “Good value”, “Fair price” and so on are all SUBJECTIVE statements. I.e. they are all based on OPINIONS and not facts.
In my OPINION, no white goods item which lasts less than 5 years without a repair, or which has a total lifespan of less than 30 years is worth buying at all ….. that’s why I use a 1957 Hoover vacuum which has never yet needed anything beyond belts, sweeping brushes and bags, a 1983 Hoover Washer that has only ever had a new door seal or two, a 1976 Swan automatic kettle which has never needed any repair of any kind, a 1984 Russell Hobbs coffee percolator that has never failed, a 1981 Black and Decker lawn mower that has never had any repairs beyond replacement blades, a 1986 Bosch hedge trimmer that has never had any repairs other than sharpening the blade, a 1991 Hitachi TV that has never needed any repairs, a 1989 LEC fridge that has never needed repair, a 1994 LEC freezer that has never needed repair & a 1979 Glow Worm boiler that has never yet failed in any way.
It’s also why I now have a 2007 Miele Dishwasher with a 10 year guarantee after having a 1988 Bosch that managed only 10 years and then a 1999 Hoover Dishwasher that managed only 6 years. After that I had a year of washing pots by hand whilst I saved for the Miele. The Bosch and the Hoover together cost as much to buy and have repaired a couple of times each as a top of the range Miele, but I only bought a mid-range Miele. It’s still got he warranty so I should be quids in and if I’d had sense and bought Miele (or some other very highly reliable brand) to start with I’d not have wasted the money on the other two.
MOST people will not agree with me that my expectations are either realistic nor even desirable. Most people will also think that my machines are not good enough because they don’t have new ‘features’, and it sounds as though you would think that too, but why would I want new ‘features’? My Vacuum is rated at only 225 watts. Most modern ones are rated at at the very least 1500watts. I vacuum for 1/8 the energy cost of any new machine and yet my vac picks up all sorts that a Dyson and even a Miele, yes a Miele, modern one will not suck up at all.
My washer washes the clothes for less than 1 kWh of electricity, does a cycle in well under an hour (and that is NOT the quick wash) and rinses all the soap out properly. Why would I want a new one that uses 2 or 3 kWh to run a wash, takes 3 hours to do it and then leaves it full of soap?
As I said in an earlier post, I’m afraid it’s folk like you who demand ‘features’ and also demand what you call a good price but what in real terms is actually a huge reduction in price from what is realistic, who encourage the manufacturers to turn out crap at a throw away price. You balk at the cost of spares for the likes of Miele, but that’s only because you appear to live in the throw-away society that says “don’t mend, replace”.
As for you your comment that Washerhelp has unreasoned brand loyalty – I don’t think he or anyone else on here has said anything to suggest a brand loyalty at all except you with your budget-brand loyalties. I am only loyal to the brands I have as long as they continue to work without repair or replacement. If any of them do fail, at the age of my appliances they owe me nothing , and come that time I will replace with whatever is on the market that is expected to do the job, nothing but the job, do the job well and last a long time. Buy the time I buy new it may be that the brand I buy doesn’t even exist yet. There is no question of unreasoned brand loyalty.
Let me clarify a few things:
It is, and i have to say, I agree with him. He is an engineer after all, what does he know?!
Have you ever been to Germany? After a recent trip to Berlin, 99% of cars I saw driven were BMW, Audi, Mercedes or VW. I will rather believe that the Germans do favour their quality vehicles as opposed to anything else. I doubt very much that the Germans are wrong, they insist on quality.
Hmm, Im not saying anything. But in my previous post, I describe Hotpoint machines as a waste of space, poorly built and don’t wash at all well, and thats an old one, I hate to imagine what the newer ones are like…
Again, good luck with that….
Again, back to the previous post. You seem to have been brainwashed that bagless is better, when it at all isn’t. ‘Loss of suction’ is a load of bunkum, James Dyson would have us to believe…
Like we have been telling you, Miele have not changed their design or construction because it works! Why change something when it already works well for you?!
Interesting comments. I hope this doesn’t descend into unfriendly arguments from entrenched points of view. As Dave rightly pointed out some of these points of view are subjective, so chances are no one is going to change their mind in an argumentative situation.
As I pointed out in my previous comment people usually arrive at certain points of view in reaction to personal experiences and Traxxion’s comment, “my premium brand Sony only lasted 3 years” appears to confirm one of the reasons for Traxxion’s feelings.
I do actually agree with some of the points, especially regarding the extremely high cost of Miele spares (which I’ve been very critical of in another article and comments).
I welcome all points of view and have no wish to run a discussion where people are unable to express a differing point of view without being jumped on but maybe the opening phrase, “I completely disagree with much of this article and most of the comments” was not the best way of joining in a discussion :)
Washerhelp:
Point taken….. :)
Dave: That’s pretty remarkable and if the machines do the job, then why not. To be honest I am no different with the machines that interest me – computers. These days, I recycle and redploy them for different tasks through the house and am not too worried about having the lastest/greatest. I just don’t think a washer is worth £1000, that’s all really …..
Adam: Unfortunately, I feel you are being slightly more personal than anyone else, so to be honest I did start to write something, but out of respect for Washerhelp’s exemplary moderation I will just cease and desist. We are only discussing machines after all ….. Thanks.
Cheers Traxxion: I think it’s established we are all reasonable people now so if the discussion continues it can steer away from being too aggressive :)
@Traxxion. Thanks – yes it is quite remarkable in some ways. It’s worth pointing out that I’m not a silver-surfer (not that there is anything wrong with them) but only in my early 40’s. Some of my domestic appliances are older than I am, ALL except the dishwasher are the first and only of each type I’ve ever had, which is why most are a similar age due to being bought in the 80’s when I turned 18 and came to live in my own house. Possibly a large part of it is that I expect things to last ‘forever’ and I look after them and maintain them to try to get a good life out of them.
I’m also a Chartered IT Professional and teach computing – so you’ll not be surprised that I favour Apple products as they also have very long and usually trouble-free lives. Possibly you and I would agree on Apple being good value and well made? Apple are surely the Miele of the computer world?