Andy(A.R.T)Trigg
#2. August 8th, 2007, at 4:11 PM.

I’ve known many people who had to scrap their washing machine in the second year because it was going to cost too much to fix after they suffered an early breakdown outside the normal 12 month guarantee. The last one was 14 months old and another recent one I know about was 18 month old.

Hopefully yours will be OK (I’m not suggesting that the majority of people would have such problems) but with cheap washing machines an extra years guarantee can prove very useful and is worth even paying a bit more for.

Washerhelp
#6. December 14th, 2007, at 8:01 PM.

Thanks for the update Robert. The problem with testing is that people only test the most commonly used pogramme, which is usualy the 40 degree cottons wash. The eco labels system for example base their awards on that. The other programmes could be useless but a washing machine could still get an A wash efficiency rating.

Just make sure your problem isn’t being caused by siphoning due to the drain hose being pushed too far down after being freshly installed.

It probably isn’t, but just in case have a look at this section on Washerhelp - Washing machine constantly fills with water and goes down the drain

If siphoning was the problem it would be losing water down the drain on rinses and the washing machine would constantly have to keep topping up with water. This can cause it to stick on rinses (and sometimes on wash).

Washerhelp
#13. January 4th, 2008, at 10:44 AM.

DAve (January 3rd, 2008, at 6:05 PM)

You make a good point about the transit packaging although Tom has now replied saying it isn’t relevant in this case. If Tom has had John Lewis agree to exchange the Moon washing machine without sending anyone out to check it first he’s done well or it shows what good service john Lewis give. A substantial amount of problems causing customers to ask for an exchange are installation or user errors. This is why suppliers would normally insist on getting an engineer out first in case it’s something really simple to put right, or an installation / user fault. ( I explain this problem in detail on my consumer advice section - I don’t want my washing machine repaired - I want it exchanged )

DAve: (January 3rd, 2008, at 6:34 PM)

The problem with modern washing machines not spinning unless they detect a good balanced load is there with all washing machines. However, some are much worse than others.

A good rule of thumb is that the good quality washing machines have more sophisticated and reliable balance distribution and detection software. They also have better quality suspension. The cheap washing machines have crude suspension in comparison with the quality makes and they wouldn’t cope with a badly out of balanced load so well, could even cause a lot of damage. As a consequence the cheaper makes may be extra cautious about what they allow to spin.

The problem you mention regarding not having a usable spin program is something people should watch out for before buying. A washing machine should have a separate spin program for spinning hand washed items or for re-spinning occasionally.

If there is definitely no proper spin on the Moon, and it does force a half hour rinse program then that’s not very “friendly” at all and pretty rubbish. This is possibly one of the compromises I mention in my article. At the end of the day, very simple usually means limited too. Although designers can make things simpler by clever design, something designed to specifically have very few options in order to be extremely simple to use has to compromise on options and flexibility.

Washerhelp
#15. January 14th, 2008, at 11:30 AM.

martin:

The growth in depth is commonly due to the extra large drum sizes these days. They need to use extra depth. The Indesit Moon has a 6Kg drum which is larger than your old one.

Another reason is design styles. Flat fronted washing machines are seen as old fashioned, and current designs tend to have a convex front. They may look good, but many people in the UK have small kitchens and lack a separate laundry room. It’s bad design for them as many installations are tight and have either a kitchen drawer, a cupboard door or a back door opening across it. This can cause major problems if the washing machine front, or its control panel bulges out.

On your point about the spin

This is the case with all washing machines - at least these days. I have a 1400 spin Miele, one of the best washing machine makers in the world, and it too only uses the 1400 spin on cottons. Here are the recommended spin speeds for various laundry from their instruction book -

Cottons: 1400 rpm
Minimum iron: 1200 rpm
Delicates: 600 rpm
Woollens: 1200 rpm
Silks: 400 rpm
Shirts: 600 rpm
Denim: 900 rpm

Having said that, there is a separate spin programme where I can spin anything I like at full spin speed. It would be inconvenient to have to constantly re-spin certain items, but at least most washing machines let you do that if you choose to. It does appear that the Indesit Moon does not have a proper separate spin only programme so this is a negative issue with the Indesit Moon for some people.

Delivery issue

The problem you had with the delivery people is a little suspicious because exactly the same thing happened to me. I would have thought it unlikely that they didn’t receive that part of the order because it’s all generated by computer when you order. It doesn’t rely on (as in the old day) someone jotting your order on a notepad and telephoning it though.

In my case the delivery men apologised and promised to return another day. This wasn’t too inconvenient for me but it could be for others. If they didn’t offer to return to pick up the old washer then you certainly have a complaint there.

I can’t help suspecting that sometimes it could be the van drivers manipulating the situation because they have a particularly bad run that day. The problem they could face is that they start out with a van full of new products all placed in position on the van. The first deliveries are the most accessible and the ones right at the back are the later deliveries. As they deliver the first few, if everyone wants the old one taken away the old ones block access to the next deliveries. It’s not hard to imagine a situation where several old washing machines, dishwashers and fridges completely log-jam the deliveries.

At the end of the day though that’s not the consumer’s problem and they should get what they’ve ordered and paid for. This particular case could be as I described or it could be a genuine cock up where they weren’t told to take it.

I’m sure John Lewis will sort it out for you, their customer service is normally the best in the business - as confirmed by Which? ( Which? - John Lewis is nation’s favourite store )

Washerhelp
#18. January 28th, 2008, at 8:50 PM.

Hello mathew King. The evidence regarding the door on the Indesit Moon being able to open when full of water if it breaks down mid cycle (assuming it had been switched off a few minutes to allow the interlock to de-energize) is anecdotal. I heard it from a repair engineer who had a customer that this had happened to.

There are many washing machines that will let you open the door with water inside if you switch it off (or it breaks down) mid cycle and wait a few mins for the interlock to cool down and release. The reason it is an issue with the Moon is that it is has no glass door so you can’t see that there is still water inside.

Washerhelp
#23. April 3rd, 2008, at 2:22 PM.

Phil: Virtually every washing machine is now cold fill only including the Indesit Moon.

The whole concept of hot and cold fill washing machines is virtually redundant and out dated. Modern washing machines use so little water that most would not take any hot water in and still have to heat it up. This is because by the time the hot water runs into the machine it’s finished filling. There is also an argument that having a hot valve is wasting hot water for most people because in most cases all that happens is the washing machine draws in a few litres of water but it’s cold because the hot water has cooled in the pipes. It stops filling just at the time that proper hot water has been drawn into the pipework but not reached the washer (or only just reached it). This hot water doesn’t get used and is usually wasted as it rapidly cools in the pipework.

Also, when supplied from a hot water cylinder, all the water drawn into the pipes is replaced by cold from the header tank in the loft, which cools down the rest of the hot water and has to be heated back up.

In this common scenario all that happens when a modern washing machine draws a couple of litres of water of hot and cold water is that none gets into the machine but hot water is wasted and replaced by cold which needs heating up again. Even with combination boilers there is still waste hot water because of cooling in pipes and it takes a lot of energy to heat water instantly as it passes through the boiler. There may well be scenarios where all this doesn’t happen but it does for the majority of people.

It’s all explained in this article but it’s lengthy - Cold fill washing machines

At the end of the day, manufacturers are falling over themselves to produce washing machines that use less energy to get the coveted A energy efficiency rating. If it used less energy using a hot valve, you would think they’d put one in. As most people only wash at 40 degrees and less, and I believe we are heading for cold water washing anyway I can’t see the hot valve coming back

I do believe it is possible to use one - particularly for the boil or 60 degree washes that all manufacturers say we should do regularly ( Washing machine manufacturers now recommend a maintenance wash once a month ) to keep the washing machine clean inside. However, it would need sophisticated techniques to overcome the problems mentioned that caused the demise of the hot valve in the first place and involve wasting the first draw of water which would need to be pumped out (there’s no room to store it for later use in the rinses).

Washerhelp
#25. June 5th, 2008, at 11:03 AM.

There is only a connection for a cold water hose on virtually all washing machines now. You just connect the cold fill hose. You should ideally blank off the old hot tap.

You should be able to buy a screw-on cap from a plumbers merchant (or maybe a DIY store) to seal off the hot valve.

In theory, just leaving the hot tap turned off and unused should be fine (and that’s what most people do) but many common taps are prone to getting accidentally knocked and allowing water to leak out. I’ve heard of cases where the lever’s been knocked inside the cupboard or even by the washing machine moving about on spin if fitted behind it causing floods. A slow dripping tap can cause a lot of damage.