I still get people asking if I know of any washing machines with a hot water valve. There are just a few washing machines available with a hot water valve (some LG & Statesman models) but they hardly take any hot water in any more, particularly on 40 degree washes, which is the most common wash programme. They only take in hot water on washes above 60 degrees.
Most washing machines now only have a cold water valve and most people instinctively don’t like this change. We all know that washing machines use hot water so it seems crazy not to use the hot water in our homes. This apparent madness is even more annoying for people who have an environmentally friendly and economic source of hot water such as solar powered. However, there is an argument (explained in great detail on the second link below) that because modern washing machines use so little water on wash there is no need for a hot valve and it is in fact more economical to use cold fill only on 40 ° washes.
A few issues are raised by the lack of a hot water valve in modern washing machines
- Several people have asked me if you can connect an environmentally friendly and economic hot supply to the cold valve to utilise it. The short answer is no, for more details read Don’t connect the hot water supply to the cold valve on cold fill washing machine
- Why are most washing machines cold fill? Should I buy a cold fill washing machine?
Some people, after reading and understanding about the cold fill issue, whilst accepting that for most people it’s either cheaper or has negligible effect, still want a washing machine with a hot water valve. This is because they either get cheap (or even free) hot water, or unlike most people they use a lot of hot washes. Even if you get free hot water though, as the link above explains, modern washing machines hardly use any water on wash. So because hot water cools in the pipes and the cold water has much greater pressure, the result is that hardly any hot water gets into a modern washing machine anyway.
The only way I would think it’s worth considering buying a hot and cold fill washing machine is if you really use a lot of 60° or 90° washes and you have a very cheap hot water supply.
NOTE:
- If you do buy a washing machine purely for the hot valve you are severely limiting your choice
- If it’s not a very good washing machine in other areas then the savings can easily be wiped out
- If it’s unreliable or doesn’t last a reasonable length of time it would also end up costing considerably more than buying a good quality cold fill washing machine
- Some Hotpoint washing machines appear to be hot and cold but they are designed for cold fill because there’s only a cold fill hose supplied and a y-piece adapter supplies both valves. I suspect this is a temporary measure and that subsequent models will just have the cold valve
- A modern cold fill washing machine only uses around £30 of electricity per year (figures based on a typical family of 4 and on 10p per unit) Therefore potential savings by using a hot water supply are less than many people might assume unless you do a lot of hot washes
UPDATE March 2012
There is a washing machine available which is now designed to use hot and cold water. It fills with hot water until it senses the temperature is approaching that which is set by the selected program and then intelligently fills by alternating between hot and cold intake. It’s also a very good quality washing machine.
ISE W288 eco washing machine with hot and cold fill
Comments?
Comments on this topic have been closed due to the sheer volume of them. There are over 600 comments for anyone dedicated enough to look through them here – archived comments for this article
Very helpful article. Have just purchased a Bosch washing maching and lamenting the change ie cold fill only, much longer wash time and frankly no better/not as good result as my old zanussi. However am now clearer on the benefits of a cold fill only and heartened to know that not much hot water was used direct from hot fill anyway
Reading the article on whether there is any benefit to getting a washing machine with both hot and cold valves I conclude that there isn’t currently much benefit , but that is largely because the models with both hot and cold valves have not been properrly designed to take full advantage of the hot supply. The article explains that both valves come on and because of the greater pressure in the cold line the machine fills up with mostly cold water. This is nothing more than sloppy design. with the benefit of modern microprocessor controls it should be easy to design a machine which runs to hot for a short while (to get hot water to come through) and then measures the temperature of the hot supply, before putting in the right mix of hot and cold to get the desired wash temperature. If the manufacturers aren’t capable of designing a machine which can do that, it is a pathetic state of affairs. In these days of environmental awareness failure to do such a simple thing to save energy in millions of homes should be unthinkable. I suggest there should be a top efficiency rating which can only be awarded to machines which can do this.
You make an interesting point Richard although I doubt it’s not done like that because they can’t, it’s more likely that it’s been looked into and decided it isn’t viable because of potential problems.
One problem is that modern washing machines only use about a bowlful of water on wash. By the time many gravity-fed hot water systems actually send hot water through to the washing machine the washer would have taken in 2 or 3 times more water than it needed. For example in my own kitchen, if I turn on the hot water tap it takes over a minute for proper hot water to start running out due to the long run and low pressure.
A washing machine would have to fill with hot water and keep it running until it detects hot water, it would then need to pump out all the water drawn in so far which would be wasteful. Then it would have to use sophisticated electronics and sensors to allow in a perfect combination of hot and cold. However, washing machines don’t normally want to start at the right temperature, washing with biological detergents for example is better when the temperature starts cold and gradually heats up. Some programs for example don’t heat the water up at first, or heat it up only a little before washing for a set time in just warm water to allow the detergent to work. Finally, biological enzymes are killed off when the water reaches over 40 degrees so starting at 60 degrees by letting in the correct mix of hot and cold water would affect the efficiency of washing using biological detergents.
Really good advice from someone who wants it made simple!
We are a family who can’t use biological poweder for allergy reasons. Therefore the use of a cold fill only machine will be less of a benefit. However, as is pointed out, there arn’t many hot/cold fill about. also our washing machine is position a good distance away from the hot water tank, so I suspect that hot water rarely makes it to the machine during a fill.
Why has nobody mentioned the fact that if you “draw off” hot water using a tap beside the washing machine you can get “instant” hot water to your hot-fill. I have been doing this for years – now that all my hot water is heated by a crabon-neutral energy source (either wood or solar) I feel it is even more energy efficient.
As for water consumption, my house has a secondary return pipe on the hot water circuit with a temperature sensor fitted to the pump so that it only switches on when you turn a hot water tap on – you than turn the tap off, wait 5-10 minutes while the water circulates, then turn it on again, by which time the hot water only has ashort distance to travel and you don’t waster much down the drain.
However, I have been interested to read about the pros of cold fill only, especially the arguments about such a small volume of water being used anyway and the possibly improved wash performance? Also, I was dismayed to read that washing machines with hot and cold fill don’t use the hot wate very efficiently.
So would I be better off going for a hot and cold machine while they’re still available or going for a high-efficiency cold fill only machine? I am still minded to get an LG with hot and cold fill… comments please?
Thanks for your comments Andrew. Drawing off hot water from a nearby tap would introduce hot water into the washing machine quicker. There’s the potential that many people would waste this water by just letting it run down the sink, and I would think only a small minority of people are likely to be happy to do that too. You also need a hot tap close by. My washing machine for example is in the garage and there’s no way any hot water is going to get into it.
There are many examples like yourself where you are keen to use hot water and have an environmentally friendly hot water supply that you want to utilise – which is why I wrote the article. The problem is that manufacturers design for the masses and the majority of people in the UK aren’t affected by a lack of hot water valve.
Buying a hot and cold fill washing machine specifically because you either use a lot of hot washes or you have a free or cheap supply of hot water is definitely an option albeit a restricted one. To my knowledge, LG are the most viable hot and cold fill washing machine to go for.
I’m instinctively cautious about choosing a product based on one criteria that only a minority of manufacturers make because it means that you could be compromising elsewhere. These other compromises could end up wiping out the advantages you were seeking. An example of this would be buying a budget washing machine, or one with a poor reliability reputation just because it’s one of the only washing machines with a hot valve – but the washing machine is more expensive to run, or uses much more water, or breaks down too often, doesn’t last very long etc. – all of which end up costing more than if you’d just bought a cold fill washing machine that’s cheap to run and reliable. My point is that if you think it’s a good idea, consider going for one but make sure it doesn’t let you down elsewhere. LG are reasonably reliable with average reliability according to Which?
( Research washing machine reliability and reviews – Which? Online 1 month free trial – what’s the catch? )
Thanks for the quick response, Andy. It at least confirms that my ideas are reasonably sound – and I like the LG machines anyway so I will probably go for one (before they delete their hot and cold fill arrangement from their range!)
Thanks for the advice on this. Whilst my current machine does use the hot water valve (and because all of the washing is undertaken in quick succession, the hot pipe does actually get hot and used) your advice on the demise of the hot water valve is far better understood than the
“Why have all the machines only a cold water inlet?” “Dunno”
“Do you have any machines with a hot water inlet?” “Dunno”
“Can you still get machines with a hot inlet?” “Dunno”
conversation I had with the salesperson at my local electrical store earlier this evening!
Rob
I absolutely hate my cold fill Hotpoint which has been nothing but trouble, even though I’ve alsways used Hotpoint in the past, this will be the last, unless they greatly improve. It won’t rinse soapowder away other than with water boiled from the kettle, so I’ve had to reluctantly switch to liquid or tablets and it has a horrible black sludge inside the top of the soap dispenser drawer housing and on the inside of the rubber seal around the drum. The engineer, on one of his countless visits tells me that this is a problem which is common with Hotpoint machines since they changed to cold fill. The washing never smells clean and certainly never seems as clean. I ahave had it 2 years and although it still works I am currently looking for a new HOT FILL model.
Hello Maxine: The problems you describe shouldn’t be caused by a lack of a hot water valve. I’m not trying to defend Hotpoint, personally I wouldn’t buy one, but the problems you describe sound like they could occur even with a different washing machine. Not having a hot valve shouldn’t make any difference. In fact you should be better off because cold water pressure is almost always a lot greater than hot water pressure – therefore a cold fill washing machine should flush the detergent into the drum better than one that uses hot water.
Almost all washing machines are cold fill only now including ones costing over a thousand pounds by people who make the best washing machines available. Your problem is more likely to be caused by low water pressure as it clearly isn’t strong enough to wash the detergent down properly. Low water pressure can also cause the water valve to not shut off 100% and a very small amount of water can seep through constantly if the tap is left on all the time. This can cause the black sludgy mess you describe.
Make sure that the tap is turned on fully for the washing machine and make sure the fill hose hasn’t been kinked somehow. You could also try removing the soap dispenser and observing where the water comes in over a few minutes. If there is a small drop of water that occasionally drips it could be that the water valve isn’t shutting off properly. If so it may need replacing or at least you should turn the tap off when you’ve finished washing (if it is accessible of course)
Finally you may find the following article of use where I describe causes of black slime, grease and mould on washing machines which is caused by using low temperature washes all the time and using detergent that doesn’t contain any bleaching agents – Washing machine smells – causes of grease, slime and black mould inside washing machines
Large families do not have the time 7 days a week to wait for modern slow machines to wash everyones clothes etc.
Live in high rise flats and cold fill only washing machine does not give enough water pressure to run machine.Wear can i purchase hot/cold machines
Hello Robert. I mention in the first paragraph that LG still made washing machines with hot valves but their latest ones may not so you need to double check first.
Mind you, I don’t understand how a hot water valve would help to be honest. If the cold water pressure isn’t high enough and needs the hot water valve to help fill quickly enough on wash then you should still have problems with timing out on rinses when only the cold valve is available.
Zanussi are quite forgiving on filling times if you have low water pressure and I’ve been told that Electrolux washing machines will operate on .5 bar although it depends how low your pressure is as to whether it would still be enough.
Thanks for the response, I can report that as of tonight and at just 27 months old, it has finally given up the ghost. Rather than pay for the call out/parts bill, I will probably look for a new machine, as I hate it anyway. With the problem you describe re the water pressure(although my old one didn’t have the same problem), are there any particularly good washers designed for this problem. Regarding the sludge, I have checked the valve, as you suggest, and all seems ok, and, since advised to do so by the repair man, have run a maintenance wash regularly, along with scrubbing inside the drawer and spooning out the gunk, inside the rubber seal. I can only conclude that the current machine is rubbish. The problem is that they always seem to go at the most inconvenient times(Saturday night, 2 days before Christmas) and living with 3 Rugby playing boys, a replacement is needed asap, not leaving much time to consider the choice of replacement machine thoroughly!!
Maxine: Zanussi and Electrolux are reportedly a bit more forgiving with low water pressure. I’ve been advised by Electrolux that they will work with half a bar whereas some need 1 bar.
I need a new machine as my old servis has just about had it. The machine is hot/cold fill can I use my current cold fill pipe on a new machine, are they universal fittings? the pipes are only a year old and put on when i had a new kitchen fitted, i don’t want to mess about with the plumbing as it is excellent no leaks and i woyld like to keep it like this
Why don’t I just blank off the hot water supply line and use a cold fill only. My present machine has a hot & cold fill but your argument would suggest that I would be better off with cold fill.
If I did this would it harm the machine…Bosch maxx
Jools: Yes, they are all universal. If your taps are the type with the red and blue plastic levers to turn them off and on it is safer to cap off the old hot water valve though.
You should be able to buy a screw-on cap from a plumbers merchant (or maybe a DIY store) to seal off the hot valve.
In theory, leaving the hot tap turned off and unused should be fine but those common taps are prone to getting accidentally knocked and allowing water to leak out. I’ve heard of cases where the lever’s been knocked inside the cupboard or even by the washing machine moving about on spin if fitted behind it causing floods.
Austin:
Some people do use a hot and cold fill washing machine as a cold fill washing machine when they don’t have a hot water tap supply available as described here Washing machine is a hot and cold fill, but I only have a cold water supply
Doing so on purpose, by disconnecting the hot valve is an interesting idea. It could be done as described in the article as long as the hot valve was supplied with cold water. However, it’s hard to see it being an advantage for most people.
If you are one of the majority of people in the UK that the manufacturers claim hardly gets any hot water in their washing machine anyway due to long pipe runs, cooling in the pipes and low hot water pressure from gravity fed hot water tanks (as described in my article), you shouldn’t notice much if any difference at all. It shouldn’t be drastically different in energy consumption or even wash times ( the biggest cause of long wash times these days is the energy label ratings – Wash Times Too Long?, Reasons why ) These of course are the manufacturer’s arguments about cold fill being better.
However, if you are one of the people who has a combination boiler, which heats water instantaneously and supplies it at mains pressure then converting to cold fill may mean a small increase in wash times on low temperature washes, and a bigger increase on times for hot washes. Energy consumption may increase slightly but manufacturers still claim it is cheaper to heat the water up inside the machine rather than externally (details in the main article)
If you have a free source of water heating or something environmentally friendly such as solar powered heating then losing the hot valve could have more impact . Converting to cold fill may mean more energy costs. But again, if the cheap or even free hot water is supplied via a gravity fed tank at low pressure, and / or there is a long uninsulated pipe run to the washing machine where the water rapidly cools then you are hardly getting any of this hot water into the washing machine anyway. Unless you run the tap near the washing machine for a minute or so to get the hot water to the machine quicker (which in itself is wasting water) you are hardly ustilising the hot water anyway.
This is because hardly any water is used on wash these days and by the time most people’s hot water starts to run into the washing machine it’s too late – the washer has already filled to level with cold.
I too am looking for a good HOT & COLD FILL washer/dryer. I want what I want, not what is currently available.
Interesting article on just cold fill inlet on modern machines. I was thinking that hot fill could still be useful if somehow the incoming water temperature could be sensed with the appropriate program.
Also the temperature of the initial incoming water flow via the hot intake, is a lot warmer than the outside temperature of incoming cold flow, especially in the winter when it could be as low as two degrees if the intake is near the stop cock.
I would think that the two above combinations would save even more energy more energy, of course there is the extra cost of manufacture involved.
G. Bruce: (21. January 4th, 2008)
I remember such a washing machine in the 1980s (I think it was by a German company like Bekay Bauknecht). They used to have a sensor on the hot water intake side which allowed a controlled mix of hot and cold water. It never caught on though.
The reason such a system is impractical now is the same reason washing machine manufacturers give for abandoning the hot valve. In the majority of cases, it takes too long for proper hot water to start running into a washing machine (due to long pipe runs and the ubiquitous hot water cylinder in most UK homes which causes rapid cooling of the water and low water pressure) By the time proper hot water starts to run (in most cases) the washer has stopped filling because there’s enough water already in.
They would say it’s too complex a system for something that in most cases would not utilise any hot water. They could design a system to work optimally in any situation but they currently see it as too complex for little gain. They all seem to have decided that it’s much simpler to just fill with cold and heat up only the exact amount required. They would say that overall, cold water fill washing machines save more energy when all energy used is taken as a whole throughout the country – even if there are a minority of people who would be better off with a hot valve fitted. The reasons for this are (hopefully) explained in my articles.
Hi,
Interesting and enlightening reading.
I have a new Hotpoint machine, and on reading the above am a little concerned about how it will perform!
Anyway, it is a cold fill only machine according to the manual, but has both hot and cold inlets on the back. It’s been supplied with a Y-connector hose to connect to a cold supply.
The question I have is the hose is not long enough, and the old hoses I have (which are long enough) are separate for my old hot and cold inlet machine. Can I connect these two to the hot and cold inlets on the new machine despite it being a ‘cold only’.
Will this damage the machine/thermostat in any way?
Many thanks
Asian:
Thanks. I haven’t seen under the lid of a Hotpoint washer with the y-piece arrangement so I’m not sure how they’ve done it. The whole system is strange. I can only assume they have both valves connected together inside otherwise it wouldn’t be cold fill. If this is the case and you connected both hoses up it would waste gallons of hot water on each wash and affect rinsing efficiency by allowing hot water to go in on rinses.
You can use the y-connector to connect your old hoses instead as long as they are both in good condition and the y-piece is connected to the cold supply. Just fit your longer hoses to the y-piece and connect the y-piece to the cold tap. Then cap off the old hot tap (try a DIY store for a screw cap to close off the hot tap) to prevent leaks or even floods in the future if the hot tap starts to let water seep past or even gets accidentally knocked.
Alternatively if you bought a separate connector you could keep your original cold hose connected to the cold tap and connect the base of the y-piece to it using the small connector. Then connect the two new hoses to the Y bit and connect to the washing machine. This would work OK and extend the length of the hose reach much further. However, I wouldn’t do it unless you really need the extra length because it makes the hoses awkward to fit behind the washer neatly and without kinking. It also introduces an extra potential source of leaks because of the extra hose and connections.
when we purchased a service washing for my mum she was very worried that it took 3 hours to do a 40 degree wash. If the instruction book had explained all of what you have said then my mum, who has had to phone service for them to explain all this would not have been worried. And I would not have needed to look on the this sight about the cold water fill but glad I did explains everything
Cheryl:
3 hours is still very long. The cheaper the washing machine the more likely they will make their washes last for a ridiculous amount of time in order to get the “A” wash efficiency award. More sophisticated washing machines can achieve better results by better design. This could explain the 3 hour 40 degree wash.
Not having a hot valve shouldn’t increase wash times that much. “A” wash efficiency ratings and more economical energy and water usage account for most of the extra wash times that modern washing machines take.
Related: Wash Times Too Long?, Reasons why.
You mention the fact that given a low-pressure hot water feed and mains-pressure cold feed very litle hot water gets into the machine. However This would imply that machines are designed for the UK only, as most European countries have mains hot water and have had for a long time. Also mains hot water is becoming much more common over here, usually via mains pressure hot water tanks, but also via thermal stores/heat abnks where people are combining heat sources (wood-burner, solar, boilers).
I am in the process of fitting solar, will have mains hot water and have a short pipe run. It is madness that a machine can get an ‘A’ efficiency rating whilst heating up stone-cold water with expensive high-carbon electricity when there is a big tank full of low-carbon hot water available.
It seems odd that so much effort has gone into reducing water use, whilst these opportunities for energy-use reduction have been ignored. The market for solar-friendy machines is growing rapidly. I wonder which manufacturer will do something about it first?
Wookey:
You make some good points. When UK washing machines went over to cold fill I was told it was to bring them inline with European washing machines which had been cold fill for many years.
At the end of the day, even a free hot water supply would not be used in a modern washing machine for most people. The main argument that washing machines don’t need hot water valves any more is based on the very small amount that they take in these days and the fact that most people only use 40 and 30 degree washes.
I agree with many of the comments here that washing machines could be a bit more sophisticated in this area. As washing machines are trying to be as environmentally friendly as possible, heating water from cold when free hot water is available doesn’t seem to achieve that. The problem is that this scenario (at least for now) is relatively very rare so it’s unlikely they will develop the machines to deal with it until it starts becoming much more common. However, as environmental issues are very popular and sells products these days it might not be a bad idea for at least one pioneering manufacturer look into it.
As you say, combination boilers are becoming very common which reduces the argument about gravity fed supplies from water tanks but cooling in the pipes is still a potential problem (this brings up another question – why aren’t hot water pipes inside our houses properly insulated to reduce the effects of hot water cooling and being wasted? )
I do believe that the very small amount of water used in modern machines makes it mostly pointless trying to get hot water in even if there is a free supply. However, if doing 60 degree and 90 degree washes a free supply of hot water should be used even if it meant pumping some of the first lot of cool water away and wasting it (I’m assuming the energy savings on hot washes would cancel out the water wastage).
This lack of hot fill is crazy. My old Bosch H & C fill uses the hot water on a 40C wash – the pipes and soap dispenser are hot. I plugged in a kwh meter and a 40 and 60C wash only used 0.25kwh – a fifth of the power quoted in the showrooms for a 60C wash. It has nothing to do with the detergents – the manufacturers just want to save money by eliminating components. H & C fill machines can always be used as cold fill – perhaps even with a switch for low temp/bio powders. People on boast who get hot water from the engine, or those with solar panels have masses of hot water. I do not need to pay to heat up more. Where is the address of the wm manufacturers association.
Hi. I have a machine with hot and cold fill but I rarely, if ever, use a cycle hotter than 40 degrees. I usually turn off the red and blue taps after a washing session but I would like to know if I need to turn the red one on at all as I probably don’t use any hot water fill, just cold?
Suzie: If you have a hot and cold fill machine you should leave the hot valve turned on as most programmes fill with hot and cold at the same time. Some programmes may not work without the hot water supply.
Thank you very much for your advice.
Hi. I have a mains pressure hot water system that gives MORE pressure from the hot taps in my house than the cold mains water. The tank is in the garage and it is quite a short run to the washing machine. A hot and cold fill machine might be a good idea in this scenario; it would almost certainly allow hot water in before filling completely.
But that got me thinking, what about fitting a thermostatic mixer valve behind a cold fill only machine, set to say 25 degrees C. Thus on a 30 degree program, the machine would only top up the temp by the necessary 5 degrees, thus using considerably less electricity and speeding up wash times?
Unless the flaw in my theory is that the machines use HUGE quantities of rinsing waterand would waste gallons of stored hot water whilst rinsing at 25C? Anyone know roughly how much is used for rinsing?
Mark: Modern washing machines use very little water these days. However rinsing needs to be done in cold water, I would guess the colder the better. Warm water may cause soapsuds to be reactivated apart from it being a waste.
A common misconception is that washing machines take much longer to wash these days because they are cold fill, whereas the truth is that this adds very little wash time to most washes which are commonly only 40 %deg; or less. The main reason washing machines take so long to wash is so that they achieve A wash efficiency ratings – especially as they need to use less electricity. Manufacturers need the wash water to be cold to start with because this has been proven to give much better wash results when using biological detergents.
You have to remember that any hot water drawn into a washing machine also causes a load of hot water to be drawn into the pipework between the washing machine valve and the boiler or hot water tank. In other words if a washing machine needs to take in 4 L of hot water it could result in at least double that amount been drawn into the pipework. At least the first few litres would probably be cold because they have cooled down after being left in the pipework after the last time will hot water was drawn.
Also, in the majority of houses in the UK hot water is supplied through a hot water storage tank. This means all the water that runs out of the tank into the pipes and the washing machine is replaced by stone cold water from a header tank which then needs to be heated up. The result is that due to the very small amounts of water needed in most washing machines for the wash fill it is generally much more efficient to use cold water and heat up only the amount of water the washing machine needs. Drawing it from most hot water systems is much less efficient and more wasteful in most cases.
Related links:
Why do modern washing machines take so long to wash?
Economy wash programmes take much longer – why?
I’ve been running off the cold water in the hot water pipes (into watering cans etc for use elsewhere) until it gets warm before putting on the washing machine for years. I also switch off the cold water for the first 5 minutes, so the higher pressure doesn’t swamp the machine with cold. We have solar heated water. However, it looks like my 24 year old machine is finally giving up the ghost. I’m quite depressed to think its not worth using the free hot water if I get a new one, though I suppose the good news is that most people use much less energy to wash their clothes these days.
Take a look at **** They use a manual thermostatic mixing valve by the washing machine. Set valve to appropriate temp for the first five mins (while the machine fills), then turn down to minimum for cold rinsing. Seems to work. I visited them too. We plan to do that when we move.
pachmarhi: Couldn’t see anything on that site but spammy links and no content.
The thermostatic mixing valve can’t be used on front loading automatic washing machines in the UK effectively because by the time the mix is the right temperature the washing machine has finished filling. Also most people would find it impractical because their hot and cold pipes are behind the washing machine or under the kitchen sink cupboard.
Hi Washerhelp. Apologies. Seems like they have moved the site. Correct url should be http://www.theyellowhouse.org.uk/
They had a mixing valve located at counter height. While it may not suit everyone, it certainly does work for some people.
Very interestingreading here all round.
I have a 25 year old Hoover Electron 1100. Sadly the drum bearings are about shot and I guess I’ll have to buy new soon.
My hot water comes from solar panels and the gas boiler as backup. It’s gravity fed and the cylinder is less than 3 feet away from the washer. Since long before having solar the hot water pipe to the washer tap has been 22mm to get a good flow.
Each week I wash, on average, 3 loads – 2 “whites economy” which is hot fill ONLY (60 degree wash) and 1 “non fast coloureds” which is hot and cold fill and washes at 40 degrees. I use ecover non bio automatic powder and enjoy excellent results. The whites washes last barely 90 minutes from start to end of last spin and the non fast coloureds are generally done in under an hour. Two questions:
1) does anyone know if the LG machines (which I have researched a lot but still can’t find an answer to this question) fill with ONLY Hot on the 60 degree washes and mixed hot and cold on the 40 degree
2) can any manufacturer or government agency give a really believable explanation as to how a solar water heated hoursehold doing lots of hot washes and few cool ones can possibly be better off with cold fill only?
Incidentally my Miele dishwasher will accept hot water fill which it gets from the solar heated cylinder and the standard wash time on that went down from 2 hours nd 25 minutes when it was on the cold feed only that my old dishwasher had to 1 hour 36 minutes on hot fill – nd I saw a difference in the electricity bill straight away.
IMHO this issue is nothing at all to do with energy saving but is simply a way to avoid addressing the issue of badly thought out plumbing arrangements leading to new, low water consumption machines, failing to draw hot water from older, ill-planned, hot water supplies and silly combi boilers that take so long to fire up that they don’t supply the hot soon enough.
Look forward to any info re the LG’s please.
I’ve spoken to LG customer services and according to the adviser i spoke to this is how LG washing machines currently utilise hot water.
(Paraphrased) “If you select a 60 degree wash the washing machine takes in hot water a bit at a time. It has a sensor in the drum that checks the temperature. If the water coming in is over 60 degrees it will take in cold instead. If it is below 60 degrees it will take it in”.
I must say that all through the conversation he sounded unsure and didn’t convince me that he was confident he was describing accurately how this works. He did confirm this is how it works but he didn’t sound sure to me.
Also, don’t forget that even if this is how they work, there is still every chance that most people would get very little hot water into the washing machine because of small amount drawn in combined with the long pipe runs and cooling in the pipework described in the main article.
Anyone who is interested in this should contact LG UK themselves to clarify
Hi there. thanks for a really useful website. I am looking for a washing machine for my small holiday cottage in a remote site with no mains electricity. We have a wind turbine (and generator which we try not to use too much) and gas heated hot water. We are just a couple so our washing needs are not huge. I was originally looking for a hot/cold fill machine but having read all this I wonder if I’d be better with a high energy performance cold fill machine. Any suggestions as to what models to look at please? (P.S. It must have one dimension which is no more than 53cms to fit through the doorway). A tall order I know but any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks to Washerhelp for the response – extremely useful and, if the info LG gave to you is accurate, also a very good system.
Dave
Thanks Dave:
Sue: Sorry for a delayed response. The smallest washing machine I know of is a Zanussi with measurements of H: 670mm W: 495mm D: 515mm
I mention it on my washing machine forum Small washing machines
Thanks Washerhelp.
I have solar heating in combination with gas directly above my washing machine I need a machine with a hot fill so I can uterlise my hot water beter also I wash at 30- 40 degrees can you advise if there is any machine on the market which would fill my needs
reagards Frances
Hi, i have a new LGWD(M)-16331 H&C fill. Unfortunately on 60 and 90 degree washes it only draws a cup of hot from the combi and completes the wash using cold. If the hoses are reversed it still only draws the cup full and then washes in hot (thinking it is cold) if the cold is turned off it only draws the cup full then spends the rest of the cycle trying to draw cold!! I’ve written to L&G 3 times to try and find out how much hot it should draw on 60 and 90 washes for 4, 6 and 8kg loads without success. They give poor and misleading replies (as you suspected in an earlier post) and have directed me to a Government energy saving website!!! Basically LG customer service is useless so i think my next step is to go to trading standards, or are you aware of a better option? Readers should not touch an LG machine with a barge pole if you are considering it for it’s supposed H&C properties.
Hello Francis: Yes, LG are still making washing machines with a hot valve.
Very interesting experience Albert. I woudl very much like to hear anything else that you find out, from whatever source. I was on the point of buying an LG, precisely for H&C fill, a few weeks ago, then I cancelled the order when the local Hoover shop (who use dto service my Hoover washer) said they woudl never recommend LG. However, when I asked them *why* they don’t recommend they could only say “it’s not a brand we stock”. Not very helpful or informative; but your experience is most enlightening.
Going off at a tangent, I notice that LG launched their steam washer a while ago and that 2 other brands (stocked by Curry’s) now offer steam wash too. How long, I wonder, before everything comes full circle and other manufacturers start to do extra rinse water, higher level wash water, H&C fill, etc., etc., so that they can keep competing!!!! Before long someone will re-invent the wheel and we’ll have sensible washers again…………..I hope anyway!!!
Just an afterthought from my previous post…..Albert – you say you have a combi boiler……my (very limited) experience of those contraptions suggests that they take a significant length of time to deliver any warm water after opening the tap (the time for the boiler to trigger the ignition device, light the gas, then the flames actually get to work and finally some warm water). Something that Washerhelp said a while back is lurking in the back of my mind: I seem to recall a suggestion from an LG employee that their machines detect the temp. of the incoming water and if it’s not “to their liking” they cut off the hot and just use the cold. It’s only a thought, but could your “hot” water actually be too cold for the LG to recognise it and does it herefore assume that there is no hot in the hot supply and ignore it? Washerhalp – any ideas? or am I just barking up totally the wrong tree?
Hello Albert:
Yes, I said in a previous comment I had an explanation (quoted below) but I felt he wasn’t confident that what he was saying was accurate and could not accept his explanation with any confidence -
Your quest for an explanation of how much hot water the LG washing machine should take in is very important for people trying to decide if LG offers the answer to cold fill washing machines.
According to the explanation I received it should take in a combination of hot and cold water as long as this combination doesn’t exceed 60 Degrees but only on hot washes. If there is a thermostatic sensor in the drum checking the temperature as described by the LG helpline operator it’s not an ideal place to put it. Surely it should be at the point of entry of the water.
It’s a bit harsh to say people shouldn’t touch them with a barge pole, at least they do have a hot water valve. But I do agree that unless the washing machine uses this hot valve it would be fair to say it’s pretty pointless.
LG washing machines don’t use the hot water valve on most washes, but they do say they should use it on 60 and 90 Degree washes. However if your hot water is already 60 Degrees or higher then it is unlikely it will use much if they are actually sensing the temperature of the incoming water. Most people’s hot water should be set at 60 Degrees.
The problem is that if it took in hot water alone on a 60 Degree wash the water would be already at the correct wash temperature. This is not ideal because if using biological detergents the 60 Degree water temperature kills off the enzymes which are responsible for the biological cleaning.
Basically washing machine manufacturers currently believe (or have discovered) that the best wash results come from washing in initially cold water. As this water is gently heated up, slowly activating the enzymes, the laundry is washed much more thoroughly and is more likely to get an A or A+ wash efficiency rating. This is as likely an explanation as to why hot valves were removed as the fact that it is supposed to be more economical to heat up only a small amount of water needed.
To be honest I can’t help thinking that the hot water valve on and LG washing machine is of little advantage especially to the vast majority of people. It could simply be that LG have just not got round to redesigning their machines to be cold fill only. It is quite an anomaly for LG to be the only washing machine manufacturer (as far as I know) still fitting a hot valve when all other manufacturers including ones making the best washing machines in the world are now cold fill.
If LG believe a hot valve offers advantages they should use it properly and let customers know what the advantages are. As far as I’m aware LG are not boasting that they are the only manufacturer still fitting a hot water valve. They are not taking advantage of this fact, and don’t appear to be trying to appeal to customers who are unhappy with cold fill only washing machines. This is strange to me. Either they think it is better to stick with a hot valve and should give reasons why and use it efficiently. Or they might as well move over to cold fill only like most other manufacturers.